Nick Telson-Sillett. Angel Investing, Being Creative and Getting Wiser
Episode - 17
Nick Telson-Sillett. Angel Investing, Being Creative and Getting Wiser
Nick Telson-Sillett. He isn't just the famous host of "Pitch Deck," a go-to podcast for angel investing insights; he's a real-deal entrepreneur who, after selling his own company five years ago, decided to give back. Through Horseplay Ventures, he supports up-and-coming startups, and with his new software company, Trumpet, he's still in the game. Eloquent and open-hearted, Nick's here to share with us his personal wisdom and the lessons he's picked up from his numerous podcast guests.
What We Discussed:
00:00:00: Introduction to Nick Telson-Sillett
00:01:07: Discussing Money and Happiness
00:01:45: Discussing Angel Investing
00:02:06: Discussing Important Lessons Learned After Exit
00:02:55: Discussing Legacy
00:03:05: Discussing the Moment of Selling the Company and Identity After Exiting the Company
00:04:45: Discussing the Struggle of Finding New Purpose
00:05:05: Discussing Evolution of Purpose
00:07:33: Discussing New Business Ventures
00:09:20: Discussing Motivations
00:10:19: Discussing the Reason for Starting the First Business
00:13:04: Discussing the Strategy of Selling the First Business
00:17:14: Discussing Regrets for Selling
00:18:04: Discussing Future Plans for Trumpet
00:19:30: Discussing Motivations for Trumpet
00:22:40: The origin of the Fidgetc podcast
00:27:29: New purpose post-exit: Trumpet and podcast
00:29:18: Current fulfilment level
00:31:01: Reflections on wealth and value of time
00:32:50: Importance of small joyful activities
00:35:14: Regaining health post-exit
00:38:22: Importance of solitude
00:40:40: Mental health considerations post-exit
00:42:31: Past struggles with mental health during Design my Night.
00:43:04: Discussing Stress Management
00:43:37: Post Exit Feelings and Finding Purpose
00:44:51: Personal Goals and Making an Impact
00:46:43: Perspective on Angel Investing
00:53:41: Lessons from Being an Angel Investor
00:59:34: Influence of Entrepreneurial Parents
01:01:48: Choosing the Right Surroundings and Friendships
01:03:32: New Wave of Friends and Personal Connections
01:05:00: Energy from different groups
01:06:09: Thoughts on Spirituality
01:07:30: Approach to Meditation and Inner Peace
01:11:52: Conclusion and Thanks
-
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:00:00 - 00:00:04]
I unashamedly want to win in everything I do.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:00:04 - 00:00:31]
Nick Telson Sillett he isn't just the famous host of Pitch Deck, a go to podcast for angel investing insights. He's a real deal entrepreneur who, after selling his own company five years ago, decided to give back. Through horseplay ventures, he supports up and coming startups. And with his new software company, Trumpet, he's still in the game. Alec content, open hearted Nick's here to share with us his personal wisdom and the lessons he's picked up from his numerous podcast guests.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:00:32 - 00:00:58]
Us three have like an hour intense meeting about some form of strategy without them thinking, oh, someone on our advisory board took this product to America and scaled it to 100 million. Let's get them on the phone now. Impostor Syndrome is a funny one. I don't really buy into it. The dopamine hit of buying stuff is a hit that goes, we're all just humans muddling through life time is the greatest gift that anyone can give you.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:01:04 - 00:01:07]
Nick, thank you so much for joining me today.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:01:07 - 00:01:07]
Thank you.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:01:07 - 00:01:20]
Really happy to see you. You sold your business seven years ago, so you had a chance to process the whole experience, and I know you've done a lot since then. I'm really looking forward to discuss that. But did money make you happy?
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:01:20 - 00:01:28]
Money, yes. Money's made me happy because it's afforded me time to do things that bring me joy.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:01:29 - 00:01:30]
What's next for you?
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:01:30 - 00:01:44]
In the immediate what's next for me is succeeding with trumpet and winning in that whatever winning looks like to my competitive nature. And then I haven't thought that far ahead. But I will reflect after trumpet and think, what's next for me?
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:01:45 - 00:01:49]
Is angel investing a good investment decision?
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:01:49 - 00:02:06]
Yes. If you surround yourself with more experienced investors than you start small, learn the ropes, and then it can exceed most safe financial investments.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:02:06 - 00:02:10]
What are the most important lessons you learned since your exit?
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:02:10 - 00:02:14]
Time is the greatest gift that anyone can give you.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:02:15 - 00:02:16]
Anything else?
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:02:16 - 00:02:53]
Find your joy in the smallest things and you'll realize that climbing your Everest, whatever that is, isn't the thing that will give you joy. Really try and find joy in the smallest things in life and you'll be a lot more fulfilled because you might not reach the peak for starters. And if that was what you were banking your joy on, you'll be disappointed. And at the same time, when you do reach that peak, you'll realize that. What's next? So if you can find joy in the little moments throughout the day, you'll be a much happier person.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:02:53 - 00:02:55]
How do you want to be remembered.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:02:55 - 00:03:04]
As a nice guy. I hate the word nice, but a nice guy that really helped the UK startup ecosystem.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:03:05 - 00:03:19]
Fantastic. Can I take you back to that moment when you sold the company, you got your financial reward, and also you were free, so you got your time and your money. How did it feel?
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:03:19 - 00:04:44]
Yeah, it was twofold for me because I sold in 2017, but then I had a two year earn out. So pretty much the day we signed was a Friday. We had the weekend, and then we were back in the office on Monday as if nothing had happened, which actually, I think, helped the transition. You could sort of come to terms with the new life you were going to have, but it wasn't like a sudden cut off. So actually, those two years, we could start thinking about ideas and what did we want to do next. But interestingly, 2019, when we fully, fully exited, I do remember sort of waking up that first morning on the Monday and just thinking to myself, I have nothing to do. What am I going to do now? Design my night. It was ten years in total. I was early mid 20s when I started it, and my whole identity was design my night. And that's what my family would speak to me about. That's what my friends would speak to me about. As a founder, I was obsessed with it, so I was working nonstop. So, yeah, I had actually a real couple of weeks, and I'm a very positive character, quite a strong mental character as well. But I really felt very flat for two weeks when I was like, okay, my whole purpose has gone.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:04:45 - 00:04:51]
What's my new purpose? So I really had to sort of dig deep to try and find what that was. And for some people, it takes years.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:04:52 - 00:04:52]
Of course.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:04:55 - 00:05:05]
You are always still looking for it, I think. But, yeah, it was a couple of weeks of feeling really low and flat while I was trying to figure out what would be next.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:05:05 - 00:05:25]
Two weeks? I've never heard such a short period of time before. Usually it's like five years. Okay, so after those two weeks, what happened? I would really love you to describe how your relationships with ideas like purpose evolved over time from what they were before you exited.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:05:25 - 00:07:33]
Yeah. The funny thing, and when I think of purpose, I took out sort of loved ones and family because that's always there for me. So that's always part of my purpose. But I always say to my loved ones is, you're 50% of my everything, and my other 50% was startups, and I need both in my life to be fulfilled. If I have one but not the other, I wouldn't feel fulfilled. So I really looked deep and I just thought, what did I really love about a, my first job, which was at L'Oreal, I did marketing at L'Oreal for four or five years. What did I really love there? What got me out of bed there apart from the politics and the corporate side of things? And then what did I really enjoy about design? My night. And it's the zero to one. I'm constantly coming up with ideas, some awful, some good, some very good, but my mind is constantly going wherever I am. And I just thought, oh, if I can find a way to ideate without the pressure, because obviously you've got no financial pressure at that time, which is one of the biggest pressures people have. So to take the financial load off my shoulders and actually just be creative and take the time to ideate, take the time to create a brand, take the time to build that MVP. And then what we decided, so that actually became our next startup, which is trumpet, was to bring in a third founder. So myself and Andrew, who had designed my night, and then we brought in a third founder to be CEO because we thought, well, what didn't we love? And we don't want to do things we don't love. And that was managing a big team and the office and all of that stuff. But my passion is brand and marketing and go to market. So I was like, look, let's bring in a CEO.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:07:33 - 00:08:38]
I can be CMO, if that's what you want to call me, and just do things I'm passionate about. So that's the sort of road we went down. And I know we'll talk about it probably. But then we looked at angel investing as well. I started a podcast, and the one mantra that I landed on, which I still hold dear today, is I enjoy being busy, but I don't enjoy being stressed. Yeah, and when you're in the trenches of design, my night, I was busy and stressed constantly. So I said to myself, how can I make myself busy but not stressed? And that's constantly the sort of tightrope I'm walking now. And if I ever start to feel stressed, for whatever reason, I'll reflect and think, okay, what's making me stress and how can I change that? And I think that's the luxury I wanted to afford myself from. My exit was time, of course, but not having to feel stressed to earn a living.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:08:38 - 00:08:47]
So what motivates you to keep going to have a podcast and a new business. I know you also do quite a lot of advisory work. Why are you still doing it?
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:08:47 - 00:09:20]
Well, a, I do love creativity. I love speaking to creative people. I love learning from creative people. So I think if you've got an open mind to constantly improve yourself, mine was one exit. Great. But someone like yourself has had like three plus exits. So there's always people I can learn from. Okay, I've exited, I'm done now. And I've got that hunger to learn to improve myself professionally, not just personally. So that always drives me.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:09:20 - 00:10:19]
Being involved in startups, creativity, ideation, brand, go to market. I love, and I have a mentality to win. I unashamedly want to win in everything I do, and that's what drives me. Yes, design, my night, a big part of that was financial, but I achieved that. So now it's my inner drive that I want to succeed. I'm very competitive and when I start something or do something, I don't want to do it like half asked. I want to do it properly and I want to succeed at it. And succeeding is very different for different people. So I know what my mind of succeeding is. But yeah, I want to win. So like trumpet, we've got an idea of what we want that to become. And for me now, it's like, I want to win. I want that number two. And it's not for my ego, it's just for my own personal achievement.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:10:19 - 00:10:49]
Because you now know that you are naturally competitive, you've embraced that personality trait of yours and you decided, why not? I will continue being competitive in everything I do. Okay, sounds good to me. So you mentioned that the motivation for design my night for your first business was primarily financial. So was it financial freedom? Was it just pure greed? How would you define that reason for starting your first business back then?
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:10:49 - 00:11:35]
Yeah, I think a, it's interesting because especially in the UK at least, money is seen as like a dirty conversation. It's very different to say America, where money and success is celebrated. I really feel in the UK that if you're successful or want to earn money, people will try and knock you down. It's a very different environment in the UK. But again, I'm unashamed that if I was going to work that hard, yes, obviously the joy of starting your own company and not working for a corporate and challenging myself on that, but myself and my co founder were very aligned that we want financial freedom. We actually sat down and did an exercise together on what financial freedom looks like.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:11:35 - 00:11:36]
Okay.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:11:36 - 00:13:03]
Because at the time he had one child, he's now got three lovely boys. I don't have children, so that's a very different financial burden on him than me. I'm not materialistic as such, so people will see if I'm on podcasts, I'm normally wearing just like normal clothes. I didn't need a fast car. So what we did was actually, and I recommend everyone doing this, is we drew up a list of everything we spend money on, everything from rent or buying a property down to, you know, haircuts, et cetera. And actually just seeing what your expenditure is, which I don't think most people do, we just spend a. That was interesting. And then secondly, what, in an ideal world, without thinking crazy, crazy, what do we want our life to look like? So for example, my holidays before cost x. And then what I would love is that I can fly business or first and always stay in a five star hotel in one of the nicest rooms.Okay, so what is the difference in price there and there? So my new spreadsheet, my holidays are going to go up x percent and this is what they're going to cost. Car. I don't want a new car. So that can stay the same, food shopping will stay the same.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:13:04 - 00:13:12]
So it helps you figure out what your priorities are. And if someone loves a fast car, that's great. I'm not saying that's.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:13:13 - 00:13:14]
Like some of our friends in common.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:13:14 - 00:14:31]
Yeah, that's great. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. If that brings you joy, great. Okay. But then on your spreadsheet, that Ferrari or whatever is going to cost you x. And then we just summed up how much our sort of new life being realistic, so not, I don't want to get a helicopter everywhere I go, for example. So being realistic. And then when we summed that up, you sort of saw what you had to get to. Okay, well, what is your monthly outgoings going to become? And we weren't miles off each other, obviously. I said it was more his children that made the difference. So we were like, okay, look, if we can get from design by night to x amount of money when we sell, that will afford us this life, okay? And then we can decide where we want to go after that. So what that does is it puts it in context for you that actually we might be happy to sell for 50 million instead of reading TechCrunch and thinking you have to sell for 300 billion. So it just sort of really focused our minds on how big design my night had to get for us to achieve our ultimate goal. And I think a lot of founders forget that you just carry on the hamster wheel without thinking what actually, do you want out of this?
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:14:31 - 00:14:42]
So going back, it sounds like you're happy you did that exercise. You do not necessarily feel that you put an artificial ceiling on your ambitions. You don't have that feeling?
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:14:42 - 00:16:29]
No, it's a really good question. Maybe. So. Maybe we settled for still a great exit. So, for example, design my night. We never took global, which was very strategic at the time. We thought, okay, let's dominate the UK. And we ended up in like 20 cities in the UK. Every city in the UK use design my night. And then maybe an acquirer will come and want to take us to America, for example. What we were worried about was, if we go to America and it doesn't take off, then would an acquirer look at that and think, oh, well, the upside being America isn't there. So we were strategic, but also we were thinking, ok, well, to hit this number that we need to achieve, we don't need to go to America. We can hit that number in the UK in terms of revenue and ebit. So, yeah, maybe there is an element of us capping our sort of expectations, but at the same time, when we did sell, it felt right. Emotionally, the market felt right. We were sort of the new upstart and the cool new design. My night was also a lot of software that we sold to restaurants that most people don't see when they obviously use the site. We were the cool new software. Look great. We were much easier and better to use than like, open table and all of those. But then after five, six years, all these competitors were seeing what we were doing and sort of adding features that we had, of course. And then we started to think, oh, okay, they're sort of catching up with us now, and they've got billions behind them. Maybe it is the right time just to get out. So there was strategic thinking. But it's an interesting question that, yeah, maybe we helped ourselves a bit.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:16:29 - 00:16:36]
You managed to control your natural competitiveness at that point and decide, you know, what, it's time to quit this game and start a new one.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:16:36 - 00:17:14]
Yeah. And I told myself that I'd succeeded. So we hit what we needed to achieve, which was the goal of design my night. So my competitive nature was like, okay, you've won that round. That's what you wanted to achieve. That's great. And then, to be honest, by the end of it, I was exhausted. It was my first startup. As I said, we started in mid 20s. Sacrificed my 20s, really, to do design my night, because it was just all encompassing. So, yeah, I think we were both just emotionally drained by it as well. And I don't think we had the fight to go to America or carry on again.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:17:14 - 00:17:17]
Yeah. Have you ever regretted selling?
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:17:17 - 00:17:45]
No, definitely not. And when we fully exited in December 2019, then COVID hit three months later. And I cannot tell you how thankful I was for not having to run design my night a going out business. During COVID we had a team of 100 and just dealing with what the government put in for employees.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:17:45 - 00:17:46]
Okay.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:17:48 - 00:18:04]
Dealing with furlough and who's going to stay working, who's not. What do we do with the office. I was genuinely so thankful every day that I didn't have to deal with that. So it was relief more than anything.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:18:04 - 00:18:17]
So you were so rational about planning the financial side of your business, knowing when you want you to exit. How is this different, if it is from how you are thinking about trumpet now?
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:18:17 - 00:19:02]
So, yeah, trumpet, similar plans in our minds, just on a bigger scale. So Rory, our third founder, is very on board with how we know. We're very tight three. And, yeah, I think internally, which we won't talk about externally. We've got our own goals that we want to achieve with trumpet. So very similar, but probably just on a bigger scale. It's a pure play SaaS business. It's instantly global. It's the sales teams. Every company has a sales team, so the Tam is huge. So similar thoughts. We brought Rory in on our thinking, but it's on a bigger scale.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:19:02 - 00:19:10]
So you would say the financial considerations are still the primary ones, or your motivation changed?
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:19:10 - 00:19:30]
A. I think we have to be mindful of Rory. So this was his first business, so he probably has the thoughts that we had. As I'm a knight, he's thinking financially free, so we have to be very respectful of that which we are. And we speak very openly as a, you know, we're very mindful of.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:19:30 - 00:20:41]
He might have slightly different priorities to us, and that's absolutely fine with us. My motivation in the sort of winning bracket with trumpet is less financial. I would like a bigger exit, just my competitive side, but it's more the learning of a much bigger SaaS company. So, like, you know, a go to market in America, building a team in America, for example, a go to market for a pure play SaaS. Can I do it, like, challenging myself? And I'm just constantly speaking to people that are smarter than me in this field, trying to learn. And I think I would see trumpet when we exit. I say when, not if, and I want to look back on it and think all the new stuff that I've learned. So it's for me, it's more learning without the stress, without the financial pressure on my own shoulders, which really does help you as a founder. And then the exit is the competitive tick in the box, which would also then be great for Rory as well, which we want to make his financial dream come true as well.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:20:41 - 00:20:53]
You said before that your identity was merged with the identity of your first business, design my night. How did you solve that problem over time?
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:20:53 - 00:22:40]
Yeah, with difficulty. I did notice in the early years after I exited, friends and family almost struggled to ask me what I'm doing because they sort of don't understand designite, even though a lot of them didn't understand what I was doing behind the scenes and the software and stuff, they could see a website and knew it was my business. And how's design my night? I used design my night the other day, or people would text me like, oh, I just booked on design my night. So even before sort of trumpet and those new projects, I think they were just like, what do you do? They didn't really understand ancient investing, sort of understand podcast. A lot of my friends are not in the startup world, so didn't really understand the podcasting I was doing. So I think they had to sort of reengage with me on understanding what I'm doing now, day to day, which is interesting. And I think now with trumpet in their mind, it's sort of back again. So they can ask me about trumpet and how that's going and all of that sort of stuff. But I suppose the identity I've wanted to create, especially with my podcast as well, is like a startup guy. I don't see my identity necessarily as an investor. I see myself on the operational side. That's what I genuinely love. And whether I'm mentoring, advising, helping, starting operating, that's my new identity, is the startup side of things, growing and starting businesses rather than I think some people would see me as an investor. But yeah, it's definitely not my identity that I want to portray.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:22:40 - 00:22:50]
So your podcast, Fidgetc, which I am a huge fan of, as you know, it's fantastic. Why did you start it? Identity is part of it. You just mentioned.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:22:50 - 00:22:50]
Yeah.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:22:50 - 00:22:53]
How did the idea come to know?
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:22:53 - 00:25:13]
So I grew up watching Dragon's Den, shark tank in America. Loved it as entertainment. I think people forget it's an entertainment show. And having angel invested myself and then had friends who were angel investors, it just dawned on me that it's so different to what people think. And I think a lot of founders that necessarily don't have a network and want to raise money. And I still think raising your early money from angels is the best way to go before sort of diving into VC. Just have no idea what a conversation with an angel investor looks like. What questions are they going to ask? Who are these mythical angels that are investing? Everyone knows VC names, but angel investors tend to not have a brand or a personal identity or anything like that. So I just wanted to lift the lid and just be like, look, everything you're seeing on Dragons Den is not what an angel investing meeting is like. They're not going to give you 50 grand and ask for 50% of your business either. That's not what you should be doing. So I really just wanted to lift the lid on what a conversation looks like, either just with myself and another angel investor. And I can ask some questions as an operator or sometimes on the format we do is an angel investor will pitch us and we have almost that 1st 30 minutes angel investment meeting live on air. And it is all live. Like they don't know the questions that are coming to them, the founders. And yeah, that's the feedback I love is from founders just being like, just from that episode I learned that one thing or that one question that actually I didn't have the answer for on my own business or, okay, seeing how different angel investors think. We're just people at the end of the day that think very differently and analyze businesses very differently. So, yeah, it was more, I just want to lift the lid on that world, which seemed a very secretive, network driven world. And I wanted to be more inclusive for founders that can't just phone up a friend to give them 100 grand. You have to go out, outbound angel investors on LinkedIn or on their personal website. How you do that, how you then prepare yourself for that 30 minutes call. How do you build fomo? How do you give them what they want and need? So, yeah, that was sort of what drove me for that.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:25:13 - 00:25:19]
Yeah, your podcast is obviously exceptionally successful. You're in top three global business.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:25:20 - 00:25:21]
Yeah, it was.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:25:21 - 00:26:02]
Well, then you took a break for a while, right? But at some point it happened and it's a fantastic confirmation that the podcast is giving value to people and we talked about it. I do think it's extremely valuable what you're doing. I hope you'll continue. I can see how startups benefit greatly from actually listening to how you analyze and your angel guests analyze their particular business. It's fantastic. I hope you keep doing it forever. I know you are. And that's really good. But I'm very curious what it gives you personally. On a very personal level.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:26:02 - 00:27:29]
It’s a great way to meet other investors on a more like personal level because you sort of build a new friendship group once you've exited. I've got my friends that will always be my friends from school and university, but then you're meeting new people. So it's a great way to expand my network on less of just like email basis. It's a bit more personal if they've been on my podcast and really studied them before, they come on my podcast as well. So I love that and I love meeting the founders. I love seeing their ups and downs of how nervous they are and then they're excited and they do the show and after, whether they're disappointed in themselves or excited in what they've done to go on the show and what they've learned from it. But then I mainly do it for sort of the messages after of just like, oh, I learned that thing from your podcast. A lot of the content I try and put out is educational. I don't want to do content that's sort of self aggrandizing and just bigging myself up every time I put content out, whether it's written or audio, I do think, okay, the target market, who's listening, can they learn at least one thing from what I'm putting out? So, yeah, when I get the messages confirming that, it makes me feel really good that I'm doing it.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:27:29 - 00:27:40]
So you mentioned that you were looking for a new purpose. How does your podcast and trumpet fit into your idea of your purpose today, seven years after you exited your business?
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:27:40 - 00:28:51]
So, yeah, on the purpose side, the trumpet side, as I said, I'm more like the CMO but still a startup guy. So I'm fulfilling all of the things that I love doing in the startup world and that's been really successful for me. And Rory was amazing and is amazing as our CEO. So that does take the pressure off me and Andrew. So I wake up in the morning excited to work on trumpet, not, oh, I don't want to look at my emails sometimes. I designed my night. It felt like that. Like I don't want to open slack today, trumpet, I very rarely feel like that. So that's great. And I'm learning a ton, which I'm excited about, learning new skills. We're VC backed design. My night was never bc it was only ever angel. So I'm learning that world as well from an operator side, which is great. And then the podcast is fulfilling that need for me to educate people and just meet cool people, to expand my own sort of personal networks. I like to sort of actually build friendships from it as well.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:28:51 - 00:28:53]
So do you feel you're in a good place now?
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:28:53 - 00:29:18]
Yes, generally I feel like I'm in a good place. I have a purpose. I'm already thinking about what's next. I'm always self checking myself as well. Is this the path I want to be on and go down? So, yeah, I think that's something I never did at design my night, so never sort of self checked in. So I'm being more aware of doing that now.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:29:18 - 00:29:24]
On a scale from zero to ten, how fulfilled you feel?
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:29:24 - 00:29:29]
I would say I'm currently at a seven and a half.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:29:29 - 00:29:30]
Okay.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:29:30 - 00:29:32]
Did you expect it to be higher?
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:29:32 - 00:29:35]
No, but it's seven and a half. It's not just seven.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:29:38 - 00:29:47]
I feel like seven and a half is good. I've got purpose, I enjoy my day, but there's more I want to achieve.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:29:47 - 00:29:49]
So what would take it to ten?
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:29:49 - 00:30:49]
Theoretically, I don't think I'll ever get to ten. I don't think anyone will ever get to ten. I think that would probably be sort of my post trumpet days and I will look back on my trumpet journey and think, okay, everything that I thought I wanted to do after design my night, what mistakes did I make by going back into operating again so quickly with trumpet and trying to build a big business again? So I think I will reflect on that and see some mistakes that I've made or making from a personal point of view. And I think probably expand my horizon rather than being laser focused to actually think, okay, how can I have my fingers in several pies and doing stuff that I enjoy on a day to day across multiple businesses that I'm heavily involved with, rather than the one business like I am with trumpet?
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:30:49 - 00:31:01]
Okay, makes sense. So how does your view on money and the wealth changed from before you sold your company to today?
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:31:01 - 00:32:50]
I think there's the cliches that are true and it's a very privileged position to say, but the dopamine hit of buying stuff is a hit that goes. So as I said, luckily I'm not very sort of possession focused. But you think, okay, well, if I buy that, or if I can buy that, I'm going to feel great and you feel great for an hour and then it's gone again. So it's a very privileged thing to say. But yeah, that dopamine hit of buying stuff is very much that. So I've experienced that now, which I didn't before. So that's good to know in my head that buying stuff isn't going to make me happy. I think what it affords you is time. Time to try and do the things you love doing and try and give yourself over as a person to be more present with the people that you love. I think when you're chasing either it's a salary just to survive, or if you're chasing an exit to achieve that financial freedom that you want, you're just so wrapped up in the day to day and your day is get up work from design my night. Get home work, have dinner with friends, but not really be present. Sort of looking at my phone and thinking about design my night, same. Going to see my family, who I love very much, very close with them, going to see my parents and not really being there because I'm thinking about other things. I think what having the financial freedom does is it takes that pressure off you. So as I said, I look at trumpet, not now, as like, it has to be successful financially for me.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:32:50 - 00:33:38]
And that just takes a load off you. So I'm still working incredibly hard, but it allows me to reframe my day, do stuff like this without thinking, oh, my God, I'm going to get back to 100 emails that I need to deal with, be more present with my friends and family and just, yeah, it gives you that time to think about what you want to do and you don't have to do the day to day grind. And all I'm looking forward to is my one or two holidays a year where, hey, I'm probably going to be on my phone as well. So it's trying to bring that joy to your life. I look at it as weekly. How can I bring joy, more joy to my life weekly? Rather than thinking, yeah, one or two nice holidays a year for my joy.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:33:38 - 00:33:48]
So basically, wealth gives you the luxury of time and presence and only doing joyful activities is thatю
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:33:48 - 00:34:52]
Нeah, as many joyful activities as you can. And when I look at joy, it's very small moments. So I find what are the small moments? I just feel calm and happy. And it could be since COVID I've discovered, like walking. Never walked before, really. I'd go to the gym and then come home and then I just realized that actually I can keep fit walking and I love walking. So every day now I will try and have an hour at least walking where my phone is in my pocket and I'm listening to a podcast or an audiobook. I'm not thinking about work and I'm just wandering. I'm not even walking anywhere with purpose. I'm just wandering around. I love being in the city. So just wandering around London, enjoying whatever I'm listening to. So it's things like, know, it's not the big moments of joy all the time. So where are those little things that I can reflect on and think I'm enjoying?
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:34:52 - 00:35:14]
Yeah, yeah. I do exactly the same thing. I can very much relate to it. And every now and then I think, oh, my God, I don't feel guilty that I'm not doing some kind of productive money earning activity that actually gives me a lot of joy just thinking about it. A gratitude exercise. So I know exactly what you're talking about.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:35:14 - 00:35:20]
Yeah, that's a good way of framing it. Yeah. You don't have to be productive. Money making all the time.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:35:20 - 00:35:24]
Yeah, you can be productive in other ways, but not necessarily with this pressure.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:35:24 - 00:36:29]
Yeah, a good example, actually. So I love scents and fragrances. A mother half bought for me a fragrance making course, like a one on one with a perfumer for a day. Loved it. And then I went back and bought my own ones and then set up a tiny little lab at home where I've got all the little, the scents that go into making fragrance. And in my head, my first instinct was, oh, okay, well, I can create some scents, create a brand. Another half said to me, just stop, just do it for yourself. You don't have to build a business of it. You love doing it. You sit down for an hour and a half or 2 hours to make a new scent. It's meditative for you. You love the output. You wear it, I'll give some to family and stuff, and that's good enough. So it was very good that I had that was told to just do it for enjoyment, not money making.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:36:30 - 00:36:58]
You know, a couple of years ago, we did this as a family. We went to France to Grass, and we did sort of a professional creation of our own perfumes. And I found it also an amazing bonding exercise with the family because we shared what kind of fragrances we like. And you never have these conversations. It almost felt like we went deeper into understanding each other through this different thing.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:37:00 - 00:37:01]
I could talk.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:37:01 - 00:37:05]
Yeah, it's easy to miss, but it's an important sense that we have.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:37:05 - 00:38:22]
It's one of the most important. And people will relate to smelling something and it taking you back to a memory and scent like no other can trigger your memory like that. And then, as you say, when you start talking about the different sort of scents you like, and then as you become a bit more skilled in it and go a bit deeper, understanding how layering scents gives the different fragrance and what a scent is made up of. A scent is the finished product, even each individual ingredient, but then it's made up of different molecules and how that starts to work. So you can go really deep. And before you make a fragrance, which I'm sure you did in grass was, you have to come up with a story of, okay, what is the scent I'm trying to create? So my first one, for example, I love Scandinavia, so I wrote down, I'm in Copenhagen, I'm wandering around the city, the sights, the smell of the city. I'm seeing a trendy coffee bar. The people are very cool, and you're just sort of rambling around and you finish on the water, and I'm having a cocktail by the water, and you create this story. And then, you know, what scents then applied to each part of the story to try and build a scent.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:38:22 - 00:38:26]
So, yeah, doing that as a family, I can imagine, is a really nice exercise, actually.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:38:26 - 00:38:29]
Yeah. But there's also meditator for yourself. I can absolutely see it.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:38:29 - 00:38:31]
I'm in it.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:38:31 - 00:38:43]
Yeah. And talking about presence, I think when we engage more senses, we tend to be more present. We are more aware that there are these senses like smell that we've been ignoring for years.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:38:43 - 00:38:44]
Yeah.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:38:44 - 00:38:45]
Makes the experience richer.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:38:45 - 00:39:09]
So much richer. And that's why now, from my design, my night days, all these immersive experiences, people aren't just going to have dinner. There's play, there's scent, there's acting, there's food. So I think society, or at least the entertainment industry, has cottoned onto this to try and give people these more immersive experience because it makes the experience so much richer.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:39:09 - 00:39:15]
Yeah, absolutely. You mentioned that you were exhausted after your exit. How did you get your health back?
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:39:15 - 00:40:40]
I mean, COVID was great for that. So it feels a really bad saying because obviously it was a terrible time for everyone, but I couldn't do anything. So actually it just gave me the time to do very little at home without the pressures of having to be social. I'm naturally a very introverted person, which people find surprising, but I find social engagements quite stressful. And I enjoy it when I'm there, but it takes a lot of my energy. So I'll leave. We've talked about meeting up for dinners and stuff, and I will enjoy it, but then I will leave that feeling very drained where other people feel buzzed from that. So it takes a lot out of me. So I am a social person and I spend time with my friends and love them dearly. But I like being alone as well. So COVID has allowed me to fulfill that fantasy of not having to make plans and just being at home and not feeling guilty about it. Exactly as that. I was not feeling guilty. I couldn't see my family, I couldn't see my friends. We would stay connected on Zoom and stuff, but it was a great excuse just to just do nothing at home. And I'm very happy in that state. So, yeah, luckily that was sort of my regeneration again.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:40:40 - 00:40:51]
How about the mental health side of things? Like did you struggle with depression or imposter syndrome or any other things that are very common in the post exit community as you know.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:40:51 - 00:42:31]
Imposter syndrome is a funny one. Like, I've talked about that before. I don't really buy into it. I feel like impostor syndrome, I feel a lot of people talk about. And then you have to ask yourself, with impostor syndrome, who are you comparing yourself to that's making you feel like an imposter? And most people are comparing themselves to the a plus person in that community that they're comparing themselves to, which is just unrealistic in anything. I love design, but I'm never going to be like apple designers, and that's fine. Doesn't mean that when I'm playing around with design, I'm an imposter of design. And we're all just humans muddling through life. We've all got our own issues and problems and doubts, and I think once you just realize that and you don't have to pretend to be anyone else. And I think that's where impostor syndrome comes in, especially in the founder community. And maybe investment community is you think you have to be this Persona of what a founder is or what an investor is, and actually you realize that you don't. And the minute you get over, that will make you a much better investor and a founder. So, yeah, I'm quite anti impostor syndrome, and maybe I have confidence in my own ability and that's where that comes from. But I'm also aware that I'm not the finished product and I'm constantly learning, and that's totally fine, and I'm going to make mistakes, and that's totally fine. And I tell my team all the time, hey, I might challenge you, but challenge me back, and I might be wrong. And as a founder, I can be wrong. That's fine. It doesn't mean, you're going to lose respect for me. So yeah, quite big on that.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:42:31 - 00:43:04]
I think my mental health really suffered during design my night, but I wasn't aware of it. So I think the more we talk about it now is great founders are very aware of it. I just burnt out, I just worked myself into the ground and fortunately enough I could keep going. And I did get through it and we got the exit, but it was obsession to the next level. And as I said, there were days that I would wake up and I didn't want to wake up or I didn't want to open slack or I didn't want to check my emails and that's depression essentially, but without realizing it.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:43:04 - 00:43:37]
So I'm a lot more aware of that now. And that's why I was talking about stress management earlier. That's a big part of that because I don't want to get back to how I felt then. And yeah, post exit there was those weeks wobble where, yeah, I was very, very flat and didn't really have any purpose to go of bed for which again, it's difficult to understand if you haven't exited yet because people are like, you've got all this money, you can do whatever you want, come on, sort of get on with it. I agree with that to a certain extent.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:43:37 - 00:43:57]
That's why I said, for me it only lasts a few weeks. And then I sort of got myself out of it and thought, come on, you're super lucky in the position you're in now. Let's crack on. So, yeah, I got through that and now I'm enjoying the purpose that I've got. So, yeah, I'm not feeling those feelings post exit.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:43:57 - 00:43:59]
How would you define that purpose for me?
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:43:59 - 00:44:51]
Purpose, when I was asking myself the question is that having something or some things that when you wake up that you're excited to focus on and that can be across multiple things. So for me, the startup side was the fun, as I discussed about go to market and brand and building something new without the pressures of being CEO. But then it's stuff like fragrance. So the stuff in your personal life that you get joy out of. And I think purpose and joy are so closely linked. And if you can have the purpose in your professional life and then bring out the joy in your personal life and appreciate small moments of joy, I think that's sort of the perfect bubble to be in of the mixture of purpose and joy.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:44:51 - 00:44:54]
Whom do you want to be when you grow up?
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:44:55 - 00:46:36]
Thanks for saying I look young still, I'm still a teenager. I do visualize what I will look like, not physically, when, when I'm older. And for me, it's having made some sort of impact on the community that I love, that is the startup community. I'm not going to sit here and be like Mother Teresa and I want to cure the world of this and cure the world of that. I look at communities that I can have an impact on and I want to look back and think I have made an impact. And people externally might have not seen the impact, but the 500 founders that have messaged me, I've made the impact on them. So I really do want to have a positive impact on the communities that I love. I want to be proud of the businesses that I've set up and there's going to be plenty more after trumpet and what I've achieved with them. And I just want my friends and family to look at me and think that I'm a good guy, that I'm a nice guy, I care about them, I love them. I want them to know Nick was the one that we could depend on when we needed him. That's really important to me and something that I probably lost when I was doing design my night. So, yeah, I think that's what I want to look back on and try and be in a healthy position as well. Look after my body as much as possible.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:46:36 - 00:46:38]
This is such a beautiful answer.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:46:38 - 00:46:39]
Thank you for it.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:46:39 - 00:46:40]
Very thoughtful.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:46:40 - 00:46:43]
Never been asked that before. So that was a really no.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:46:43 - 00:47:15]
I could see that you thought about it and came up with a beautiful, beautiful answer. Thank you. So talking about your favorite community, startups and angel investing, which is one of the ways how you give and impact that community you care about. So now you've done quite a lot of investment over 50. Right yourself. So help me understand what you get out of it, why you do it and why you've done it for so long and where you are right now in terms of your plans for the future in angel investing.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:47:15 - 00:52:48]
Yeah, angel investing is a funny one. So I think it's a natural progression. When you sell your startup, like back in the day for us, I'm glad that's changed. Now you go to school, you go to university, you get a job, that was your progression. And I feel like the progression is that you start a business, you sell it, you become an ancient investor. I feel like that's like the natural progression and I fell into that trap. What I thought and what I do love about angel investing is meeting co founders, learning different areas of business. I'm very sort of SaaS focused and consumer website design. My night. So having my eyes open to that new world, genuinely learning from the ones I've invested in because some are doing really well and I'm like, okay, I've actually asked their opinion on trumpet on a few things. Even as an investor I'm like, oh, what would you do? And here I'm struggling with this. I've seen actually you've done it really well. So love that. I love making an impact and that's what I thought engine investing would be a lot more. So I think that's the thing that's let me down on it is I thought I would be able to meet founders, have coffees with them, basically be the operator that I love being at arm's length. So my whole stress thing. So hey look, if I could be, let's say out of the 50, I could work closely with 25 of them. And my day is meeting these brilliant founders for coffee, discussing the business challenges, giving my viewer on it, they go away, implement it, it impacts the business for the positive. Amazing when the reality really of angel investing is a, you're a money box. So it's a transactional relationship, number one, which is fair enough, and number two, rightly so to a certain extent. They are their own people, they're founders, they have their own views on their own business and yes they might respect your opinion, but they're well within their rights to ignore it totally. And I think I just started getting a bit frustrated that I was taking the time to really think about replies and helping them where I can and it was sort of falling on deaf ears and then I saw the mistakes happening in the business and then eventually closing or hitting hard times as an operator, competitive person, that really hit me and I was like, God, am I enjoying this like taking all this time to really think about their challenges and how I would deal with them and then it just been ignored. And then also the sad reality is a lot of founders don't really keep you that updated. So I make it very clear when I engine invest, I am here, here's my number. What's at me whenever I don't pick up the phone a lot, but what's at me? Well, voice note, any challenges, let me know. You've got my money now I can't take it back, so let's be honest, any problems you've got, let me know, let's try and sort them out. I don't just want your monthly update where I'll reply and you'll ignore me, that's not the relationship I want. And the sad reality is, and I know as an operator things get on top of you. But probably out of all my investments, 50% send a monthly update max and probably only five or six, I have a WhatsApp relationship with and ironically that's what I want. I want to help the founders more. I'm not just a money person, take my money, grow it. I don't want to hear from you. So yeah, I lacked the fulfillment and the joy from it and I just sort of asked myself that question. I'm putting in a lot of my own financial wealth into this, incredibly risky as well and I just wasn't getting the joy from it. So sort of where I am now is I still put out a lot of content where I'm helping founders. That never stops. But I've sort of taken a pause, I think, on putting anything net new in and ironically it's a great time, I think because valuations are lower. So actually if I was doing it from the start, reality of making money, this year would actually probably be a good year to invest. But it wasn't bringing me joy and that is my focus. So I focusing on my current portfolio, trying to help them as much as possible, get the joy out of that, get the joy out of the ones that are working with me closely, helping them wherever I can. And I hope that if you spoke to those founders, I would be one of those angels that they're like, oh yeah, Nick is really helpful and he really tries to help us where we can. So yeah, I've been on a funny journey with angel investing and, you know, I'll get back into it again and just try and think maybe part of it is on me, maybe I was approaching it wrong as well. So thinking how I can approach it differently, how I can not have to spend loads of time analyzing decks and all of that sort of thing. After all, most of my best investments have probably come from referrals. So maybe not worrying about all the decks I get sent. I don't have to open them and analyze them all and don't feel guilty for doing that. You can't get back to every founder, it's not my day job. And maybe rely on more referrals and groups, I mean, of trusted angel investors. And just look at those decks and yeah, just maybe reframe where angel investing is in my mind because I think it's very romanticized externally.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:52:48 - 00:52:55]
Why do you think so many founders are not taking advantage of people like you in terms of getting advice.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:52:55 - 00:53:41]
I think, because, and as I said, I was in it. You're so wrapped up in your day to day, and we're like that with trumpet. I make a point of stepping back regularly and especially saying to Rory, who can we ask to help know? Us three have like an hour intense meeting about some form of strategy without them thinking, oh, someone on our advisory board took this product to America and scaled it to 100 million. Let's get them on the phone now. Let's not us three try and thrash it out. And I think a lot of founders just don't think like that. They get caught up in their bubble. That's all they focus on. And they almost see updating investors as a chore rather than actually something that can be super positive.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:53:41 - 00:53:53]
So you have VC investors now in your company, in trumpet. So do you think that the lessons you learned as an angel investor is helping you structure your relationships with them differently?
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:53:53 - 00:54:51]
Yeah, we were fortunate enough to be able to pick the vcs we wanted to work with and we were very clear that we want help. And actually the ones that have invested in us are smaller, so we didn't want the tier ones and it was a great decision because the ones that are around us are mega helpful. Every monthly update, which we send on the first of the month without fail, even if it's a weekend, they will get a monthly update. The top thing of that monthly update is asks. So if you don't read the rest of the update, the one thing we ask you to read is our tasks. Yes, because what we're putting in there is important and we've got most of them on WhatsApp. So yeah, I'm trying to follow those things. So we're like, oh, actually, can you help us with this or can you connect us with this person? Or, we're thinking about pricing. Do you know someone we can speak to about pricing or something? So, yes, we're trying to use our investors as much as possible beyond cash.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:54:51 - 00:55:09]
So I know for your podcast you've interviewed a number of exited founders. You also have them in your network. Do you think that most exited founders who get involved with startups do it for more or less the same reasons as you or yours are different than what you see in others?
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:55:10 - 00:55:46]
I think if most were honest with themselves, financial freedom would be top of the list. I see a lot of founders. I want to make an impact or I don't want to work, I want to do my own thing. I want the freedom. I'm going to get so much enjoyment out of that freedom. But I think if people were honest with themselves, especially the first one, is financial freedom is a big part of it. So yeah, I think that is the same for most founders.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:55:46 - 00:55:54]
That's founders. But I was even more curious about what exited founders get out of being angel investors.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:55:54 - 00:56:44]
Okay. I think most they want financial rewards. And look, angel investing is incredibly risky, but the stats are out there that VC funds historically outperform most markets. So if you can get access to the right deal flow, it's important. And don't make just rash decisions with angel investing, it can give you a very good return. So I think that is definitely top of market for most people, but I genuinely think most exited founders are. It's that arm's length but still involved. I don't want to be an operator anymore because I'm exhausted, but I still want to be in the ecosystem and I still want to be able to influence a startup. But then, yeah, I would say the reality of that is very different.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:56:44 - 00:56:50]
Yeah. Okay, so you see, your experience is quite typical comparing to exit founders, you see?
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:56:51 - 00:56:52]
I think so the ones I speak to.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:56:52 - 00:57:11]
Yeah. So you mentioned friends and the relationships you had or how they changed after you exited. So I'm very curious about that. How do you find your exit affected your romantic relationships but also your closest friends and family?
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:57:12 - 00:58:22]
Yeah, I think apart from not really understanding. Look, when you meet people, the first thing you'll sit down and talk to with your friends probably is, how's work? How's work? What you up to? So when people don't really understand what you're doing anymore, I think that was the difficult part. I don't think, if anything, it's made me, I would like to think a better friend because as I said, I'm more present. I can give them more time, and I'm really there when I'm meeting with friends and enjoying each other's company, I don't think it's changed the sort of financial aspect to say that the type of person I am, I'm not materialistic. I don't have any social media apart from LinkedIn, so I'm not one for posting a selfie of me in a suite with an infinity pool or something. I keep that to myself when I'm enjoying my holidays. I don't need to share that with anyone. That's not what brings me joy. Other people being like, wow, look at what he's doing. So my actual relationship, I hope my friends would agree, hasn't really changed me at all. And if anything, yeah, it just makes me more present when I'm there. Same with loved ones.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:58:23 - 00:58:29]
Okay, great. Did you have the situations when you had to say no to money requests from friends or family?
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:58:30 - 00:58:39]
No. I think the friends I've accumulated over the years are close enough to not bring money into it.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:58:39 - 00:58:40]
Okay.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:58:41 - 00:59:34]
My friends have all done well as well themselves. I have offered to some friends that have been in a bind and I said, look, I know this is really awkward and you don't want this, but I just want you to know that the situation you're in, if you need any help and if it just stays between us two, that's fine, I can help you. So I have made that clear to some friends, but, yeah, I think the friends I've got wouldn't come to me unnecessarily asking for money. Same with my family. I'm from an entrepreneurial family, so they've done well. So I like to sort of gift them things and treat them to things, but my parents haven't had to come to me. Like, can you pay off our mortgage type relationship with money? So I'm lucky from that aspect, but as in, I would have helped them anyway.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:59:34 - 00:59:36]
So your parents were entrepreneurs as well?
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:59:36 - 00:59:37]
Yeah.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:59:37 - 00:59:39]
Do you think this is why you became one?
Nick Telson-Sillet: [00:59:39 - 01:00:55]
I think it opened my mind to that, as a path you can go down. So I always saw that from my mum and my dad separately in separate businesses. Yeah. Not going to work nine to five, working incredibly hard, long hours. But then my dad's office especially, I would go into when I was a kid and run around and get to know the team. And that was normal to me, that dad set this up. He's the boss and I'm the boss's son and I'm running around causing havoc. So I don't think it made me want to become an entrepreneur, but, yeah, it opened my eyes to the normality of that, because I think with anything, that's why there's a problem with minority founders, because if you don't see something, you don't think you can achieve that or that's normal. So I think having an entrepreneurial mum and dad, it was just normal to me having said that, when I said, I'm leaving L'Oreal to do design my night, they were like, well, but you're doing so well there and you love it and you've got a career there and you can go to. So even though they were entrepreneurial, actually, when push came to sharpen, I said, I'm doing it, I'm leaving.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:00:55 - 01:00:57]
Well, because they know how hard it is.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [01:00:57 - 01:00:58]
Well, exactly.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:00:58 - 01:01:01]
They don't romanticize it the way you probably did at the time.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [01:01:01 - 01:01:06]
Definitely. So that was funny. But yeah, I think it opened my eyes to that side.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:01:06 - 01:01:11]
But when you were a child, do you think they wanted you to take entrepreneurial path?
Nick Telson-Sillet: [01:01:11 - 01:01:34]
I don't think so. I never really discussed it with them. I was always a very studious kid, worked very hard wanting to win. So I think in my head I was going to be like a lawyer or something like that. So in my head I think that was just like mapped out and they were happy with that. If your kid says you want to be a lawyer, you're like, great, go and be a lawyer.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:01:34 - 01:01:37]
That's predictable enough for us not to worry about. Exactly.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [01:01:37 - 01:01:48]
Go and be a lawyer. Yeah, I don't think I actually ever discussed it. Thinking about it when I was picking gcses and stuff with my parents. On being an entrepreneur.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:01:48 - 01:01:50]
How do you choose people you surround yourself with?
Nick Telson-Sillet: [01:01:50 - 01:04:25]
I'm a lot more deliberate about that now. So I'm really lucky that I've got a really close group of friends from school still, who is my happiest time when I'm with them. They know me inside out. Since I was like ten, they've seen me change and grow and they know the authentic me below all of the layers. And I think that's what I realized is authenticity. So it's like who can I actually be totally at ease with? That's when I'm at my happiest with people. So from school to university, I've got two very good close groups of friends there. And now I've gone into a new era of having friends that are founders or investors, that we obviously have a lot in common in that world. And I just think to myself, we discussed earlier about being an introvert and my energy being drained. But actually if I think, oh, I'm going to have an hour coffee with this person, that I'm energized for it and I leave the conversation energized. So I try and surround myself with people that I think are going to energize me. And it's interesting, some of my closest, closest friends, newer friends, I've not met their other half, or they then come round to mine for dinner and meet my other half. And it's not that relationship because actually I energize from the sort of business relationship we have that's become personal and that I actually just genuinely. I consider you a friend. I enjoy spending time with you, but the energy I get from our time together is spitballing about business and startups and investment, and I think, oh, if I bring that into coming round to mine and meeting the other halves, and the conversation becomes a bit more banal, like dinner party chitchatter, I'm just like, oh, do I need that type of friendship from you? Interestingly, and that sort of opened my eyes, because I've never really had that. All my uni lot and my friends lot, as other halves, we're all very close, and we're groups, and we all go out for dinner, and that's great. But this new wave of friends I've got has opened my eyes to that side of friendship. It doesn't have to be on a sort of personal level, but I feel close to you personally. But actually, what we're discussing is more the business and startups, because that's what energizes me.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:04:25 - 01:04:28]
Yeah, because you really care about it. For you, it's personal.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [01:04:29 - 01:04:29]
Yeah, right, exactly.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:04:29 - 01:04:31]
It is part of you.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [01:04:31 - 01:05:00]
But I would feel guilty that if we sat down at a dinner table with the other halves and we started talking about business, if that's not their game, would they be interested in that? And then you're just like, oh, okay. Well, they're not really enjoying it. So we have to talk about what we watch on Netflix and stuff, which is also fine with them, but I've got plenty of close, close friends. I've had the 2030 years that I do that with. So, actually, this new wave of friends, I'm looking for a different friendship.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:05:00 - 01:05:03]
What energizes you more between these two groups?
Nick Telson-Sillet: [01:05:03 - 01:05:19]
What energizes me a lot, is the chat about stuff I'm passionate about, which is business and startups. But the love I have for my sort of group of university friends and their other halves, and now their kids and my school friends, I get a lot from that as well. But that's because it's.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:05:20 - 01:05:22]
You get love and belonging from there, probably.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [01:05:22 - 01:06:09]
Exactly. And sometimes it's nice to actually step back, especially from the introvert in me, actually, I love not having to be the center of attention. So if we are, there's six of us having dinner or something, I don't have to be on all the time. And they love me. I love them. So they know I'm not being disinterested or anything, but I'm actually just sitting back and enjoying chitchat. And I'm genuinely very interested in my friends lives and their children and how they're doing and how I can help and whatever. So I get energy from that as well. But then I suppose what I've realized is it's nice to have different scents to your friendships, that not every friendship has to be the same scent. I have different scents for different occasions and I think you can have the same with friendships.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:06:09 - 01:06:12]
No, absolutely. What are your thoughts on spirituality?
Nick Telson-Sillet: [01:06:13 - 01:07:29]
So my mum is very spiritual. She's actually a Reiki master. Crystals all over the gaffe at home. We've done pendulums and stuff. Part of me is very into it. I do believe there is things that the human brain doesn't comprehend or understand. I'm not religious. I don't really love religion because I feel like it does more harm than it does good on society. Most of them, Buddhism, Sikhism. Amazing. Seem to be very open and welcoming for all different types of people. But the spirituality side, I believe there is something bigger than we can understand. I think we're quite arrogant as humans. We think we know everything but the deja vu's and meeting people that you just feel this connection with like that. I think there is a lot more to it. Mum bought me some crystals for my desk at design. My night one was like luck, success, wealth. I had them on my desk for the whole time and they're now on my desk for trumpet as well. So just having them, maybe I must believe in something there.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:07:29 - 01:07:30]
It may be your mother's love.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [01:07:30 - 01:08:00]
Maybe she's there pushing it through those. So, yeah, so I'm very open to it. But at the same time I'm not doing yoga retreats and meditation retreats and taking myself off to Bali and stuff like that. I actually get my meditative energy from the city, weirdly. Like, that's my calm.
So yes, very open to spirituality, but you won't find me at a yoga retreat in Bali anytime soon.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:08:01 - 01:08:03]
Great. Thank you. I had to ask that.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [01:08:03 - 01:08:06]
Are you spiritual?
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:08:07 - 01:11:52]
I would say so, yeah. But over time I started thinking about spirituality as my connectedness with everything else. And me feeling is just part of bigger universe and it's the most efficient way for me to reduce stress. Talking about stress, just thinking about it, I actually visualize kind of almost physically going into that space where I'm just part of it and it immediately calms me down. So it came from sort of practical need to find a great tool that works quickly.
But over time, I think my mind is now trained to think that way. That's my source of calm. Yeah. So it's great. I'm very interested in it. Intellectually, I do not see spirituality as mysticism. I think that is a very common way to see spirituality, and that's why people don't want it. They're like, oh, it's mysticism. But once I've separated them completely, my relationship with spirituality improved dramatically and became just really this sort of almost dissolving myself in this ocean of the universe and feeling great about it. Also, fears go away, right? Because you're like, okay, it's all just meant to be. It's good. So there is a practical aspect in spirituality, but I think the most important thing for me is that at some point, I realized that the overall direction where I want to go, specific purpose, can change. But the overall direction where I want to go is this place where I contribute as much as I can with what the world gave me, what I got when I was born, my talents, the skills I acquired, my wealth, like all of that, if I can contribute it in the most efficient, meaningful way, this is sort of where I'm going. And if you ask me about sort of this fulfillment question from zero to ten, like you, I would say, I don't think ten is reachable. But that ideal of a ten is that sort of state of this extremely generous, efficient contribution of everything I have. And for me, that's spirituality. If you think about it, it's basically growing out of our ego into egoless being, which we never can be, which is fine. I had a very complex relationship when I exited my first business with the whole idea of whether it's morally acceptable to pursue self interest. And I thought a lot about it. I kind of got stuck a little in it intellectually, and then I got it resolved, this sort of paradox. I got it resolved by realizing that if I consciously, with small steps every day, try to be less selfish and more selfless, then everything falls into place. And actually, me pursuing my self interest is perfectly aligned with my role in this world. So I can have a business which is very useful for people, and then it's beautiful, and I'm using my skills, I'm using my talents. I'm giving people something that I'm meant to give them, and I get the satisfaction back. So, for example, fulfillment for me is exactly that kind of satisfaction you get back from giving out to then. Yeah. Being that piece of puzzle in the world that finally fits in its rightful place and plays its role. Nick, thank you so much.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [01:11:52 - 01:11:53]
Thank you so much.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:11:53 - 01:11:56]
I've really enjoyed such a wonderful interview. I'm very, very happy. Thank you.
Nick Telson-Sillet: [01:11:56 - 01:11:57]
Thanks for having me.
