Mimi Ikonn. Building wealth by 25 forced me to find my true purpose earlier in life
Episode - 7
Mimi Ikonn. Building wealth by 25 forced me to find my true purpose earlier in life
Mimi Ikonn sold her company, Luxy Hair, 5 years ago, traveled the world, wrote two books, and gained a massive social media following. Her latest business, Intelligent Change, helps people live happier, more fulfilling lives.
Mimi's zest for life and the transformative power of gratitude will leave you with a fresh perspective on personal well-being and the pursuit of purpose. Tune in for a dose of positivity and wisdom!
What We Discussed:
00:00:00: Introduction and overview of the episode
00:00:06: Introduction of Mimi Ikonn and her ventures
00:00:26: Achievements in the first year of business
00:01:00: Mimi's gratitude for the platform and her reflection on financial freedom
00:01:47: Mimi's self-awareness about financial abundance and its impact
00:04:04: Mimi's perspective on the power and influence of businesses
00:04:45: Mimi talks about her purpose and how she wants to be remembered
00:05:55: Mimi discusses her influence and control over her actions
00:06:51: Mimi talks about her childhood and the origin of her dreams
00:09:48: Mimi's definition of success and the importance of feeling good and fulfilled
00:12:00: Mimi's reflection on her journey after attaining financial abundance
00:17:51: Discussion on the hunger for freedom and realization of its abundance
00:20:10: Mimi shares about the need for stability and community in the abundance of freedom.
00:21:45: Pragmatism vs. passion in building a business
00:22:33: A shift from not wanting to work to wanting to work
00:23:14: Realization from building Luxy Hair
00:24:03: Marketing strategies for Luxy Hair
00:25:26: Work-life balance and stepping in and out of "hustle mode"
00:26:23: The process of selling Luxy Hair and what came afterwards
00:28:46: Re-framing the concept of work as art
00:30:12: Memory of money and its influence on our attitude towards work and business
00:31:50: The natural inclination towards creation and problem-solving in business ventures
00:34:27: Creation of Intelligent Change and the Five Minute Journal
00:40:27: Role and responsibilities in Intelligent Change today
00:42:24: Personal transition: Separation from her husband Alex Ikonn
00:43:20: Belief in Dreams and Living the Potential
00:43:47: Navigating Relationships: Conscious expansion and maintaining respect
00:46:31: Addressing Divorce and Its Impact on Children
00:52:05: Defining the Next Dream: Authenticity & Potential Personal Development
00:54:21: The Role of Friendships
00:56:46: Living a Life of Purpose: A life Guided by Love
01:04:28: Approach to Psychedelics and Meditation.
01:05:58: Meditation Practice and its Importance
01:08:19: Comparison with Psychedelic Experiences
01:09:29: Advantages of Meditation
01:10:05: Personal Experience with Anxiety and the Role of Meditation
01:10:47: Overcoming Fear through Love and Meditation
01:12:09: Conclusion and Appreciation for Deep Conversations
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Mimi Ikonn: [00:00:00 - 00:00:05]
Love, beloved, spread love. I almost had suited on my hand years ago.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:00:05 - 00:00:26]
Mimi Ikonn. She sold her company Luxy Hair, five years ago, traveled the world, wrote two books and gained a massive social media following. Her latest business, intelligent change helps people live happy and more fulfilling lives. In this intimate conversation, she will inspire you with her obsession with freedom, self discovery and love, along with the lessons she'll on her extraordinary journey.
Mimi Ikonn: [00:00:26 - 00:00:59]
Failures. I don't believe in that word. When you try something, you don't really fail because you have actually tried it. Within our first year, we made our first million. I feel the most alive when I feel like something that I do brings value and purpose and meaning to someone, we really have to redefine success.
At the end of the day, what truly matters is that you wake up with a purpose and you do something that feels meaningful to you.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:01:00 - 00:01:04]
Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm very excited about our conversation.
Mimi Ikonn: [00:01:05 - 00:01:10]
Thank you so much, Anastasia, for having me here today, for giving me your platform to share my story.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:01:10 - 00:01:21]
So now that you have your financial freedom, you've had it for quite a while. You're an experienced person in this sense. What's your relationship with money and how do you actually see it?
Mimi Ikonn: [00:01:21 - 00:01:47]
I'm very grateful for money, 100%. I think people again who attain financial success and say it doesn't matter, I think bullshit. Because again, money can buy you so many things that not having it is going to hurt a lot. Whether it is better health care, even though, for example, we do live in a country that has free healthcare. When I have a health issue, I go into private straight away.
Mimi Ikonn: [00:01:47 - 00:04:03]
I don't want to wait for three months to get an appointment. Right. So I'm extremely hyper aware that having financial freedom is an incredible blessing. And I'm very conscious of the fact that I am the first one in my family who has made this mental leap into financial abundance. And what I mean by that is that, again, before we lived in financial scarcity.
And it truly is a mental leap because I think once you realize you can make a million, you know you can do it over and over again. And I think another key element of having that healthy relationship, whether with money or anyone, actually, I think this applies to romantic relationships, friendships, anything in life. Happiness as well, is like being grateful. Enjoy it, be aware how blessed you are to have it, but don't attach too much of your significance or identity to it. Because the moment you do, when you start grabbing onto it and feeling like you would be nothing without it, that's like beginning of the end.
And yeah, I feel like I have a very healthy relationship and I see it as a blessing, but I also, and I enjoy it. I enjoy all the luxuries thinking by you again, but I don't think that it defines who I am. And I know that if I were, let's say, to lose everything tomorrow, I would be okay, I would be the same. My value wouldn't change and it doesn't make me better than others by having it. So, yeah, many realizations, pure gratitude, because it's really important to have it, because it's also a tool.
Like, you can give so much and you can do so much good with money. So also it's a huge responsibility how you use these assets, what do you do with it? And also, when you have a business that's generating so much money, how do you run it? With what ethics. Again, going back to sustainability, we as business owners have such a huge responsibility on how we do things because we actually are the ones who can make the difference globally.
Mimi Ikonn: [00:04:04 - 00:04:41]
It's not the bureaucratic governments who will take 20 years to pass a new law or make a change. We as businesses have so much power. I know it's a little off topic from money, but I think it's still, it's not. Again, it's really important to. Money is such a big thing and it affects everything.
If you think about it, it's just a piece of paper. It's an illusion. And yet it can make such a huge difference in someone's life, how you treat it, what you do with it. So I'm very conscious in the way I spend and. Yeah.
Does that answer your question?
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:04:42 - 00:04:44]
Absolutely.
How do you want to be remembered?
Mimi Ikonn: [00:04:45 - 00:05:54]
Well, going back to what we talked about earlier, in terms of what my purpose is, which is love, beloved, spread love. I want to be remembered as somebody who has loved, who has brought love to all those I've been around and who made the world a better place. Maybe sounds a bit cliche, but I just love the song by Michael Jackson. It's like, if you want to make a world a better place, take a look at yourself and make the change. So I always challenge myself to think, like, am I making this place better than when I came?
It can be overwhelming sometimes because we didn't create this world. Like, maybe we are co creator, but we didn't sing in hand. Like me, as Mimi Ikonn didn't create all these wars and this unsustainable in some way world that we're currently living in. And yet I have so much power in the way I live my personal life, the way I act, makes an impact.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:05:54 - 00:05:55]
Absolutely.
Mimi Ikonn: [00:05:55 - 00:06:40]
Even though it's one tiny drop in the ocean, it creates that butterfly effect. So I always think of the fact that my actions can still change the world in a way, even though it feels small. It's the only thing I will ever have control over. I don't have control over how you are, what you do with your life, or what the government does. And we can try to influence it, but in reality, all we ever have control over is our own actions and our own reactions.
And, yeah, that's the goal, is to really be conscious with all of that and know that ultimately I can create a better world.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:06:41 - 00:06:51]
So I really want to start from the very beginning. I want to understand what it is in your childhood that you think resulted in you being where you are today.
Mimi Ikonn: [00:06:51 - 00:08:25]
That's an interesting question, for sure. And one thing that really stands out for me from my childhood that was different when I compare myself to my friends, is that I always had this strong ability to dream and believe in my dreams. And you would say, well, most kids dream, but the truth is they don't. And even as a child, I remember having all these big dreams. Like, I always knew that I'm originally from Baku, Azerbaijan.
I grew up there, and I lived there until I was 16. And as a kid, I remember telling all my friends that I'm not going to stay in Azerbaijan. I'm going to leave somewhere else. I'm going to travel the world. And I remember them looking at me like I'm crazy.
Until later on when I actually did move away and my family immigrated to Toronto. And I remember coming back to Azerbaijan at one point, I was already in my twenty s and having a class reunion, and a lot of my old friends told me, wow, you did it. Look at you. Your dreams came true, and I completely forgot about that part of my life. So I think that ability to envision something that is different from what you are today, I think a lot of us maybe have dreams, but have been conditioned by the society or family or the environment to squash them and not believe in them.
And I think in order to create anything in life, you have to have a vision. You have to have a dream. So, yeah, if I have to pinpoint one thing is that I'm a big dreamer. Still am.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:08:26 - 00:08:28]
Did your parents support that?
Mimi Ikonn: [00:08:29 - 00:09:20]
I think my dad for sure is a big dreamer as well. I think he was quite unique, again, coming from that USSR upbringing where everything was, in a way, black and white. And structured. He always also wanted to live abroad. And I think coming from Azerbaijan back in the olden days, now you can travel.
It's a bit more flexible, but with Azeri passport, you could only travel to a few places, Russia, Turkey, Georgia, Armenia, but you couldn't go to the US unless you were an entrepreneur or a diplomat. So he always also had these big dreams of living abroad. And I think that probably rubbed off on me subconsciously, for sure. We are the result of our upbringing, and I think, without knowing it, he definitely has influenced that.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:09:20 - 00:09:27]
So do you intentionally help your daughter now to be a brave dreamer?
Mimi Ikonn: [00:09:27 - 00:09:48]
100%, definitely. I am very conscious of, I'm a parent now, as you said, like, I have a daughter. She's seven years old. Since she was little, I remember thinking that it's not what I say to her, it's what I model by my behavior. And I'm always conscious of how I speak to her and also how I speak of the world.
Mimi Ikonn: [00:09:48 - 00:110:59]
And I always tell her to choose what makes you feel good. Like, choose to do things and choose to be around people that make her feel good. And I think ultimately, we are at a stage in our evolution as humanity where we really have to redefine success. And when I was younger, from the outside world, at least what we would get is, like, have lots of money, have lots of material goods, have a status that would be success, where right now, what I am conditioning in a way, to her is like, as long as you feel good and you feel aligned with what you're doing, and you have really good people around you that make you feel good, that is success, and that is where I am at. I'm very lucky, actually, to be in a place in my life where I do what I love.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:11:01 - 00:11:06]
But when you started your first business, wasn't you thinking a bit different?
Mimi Ikonn: [00:11:06 - 00:12:00]
100%. I don't come from money, as you know, we've been friends for many years. I come from very humble beginnings, especially growing up in post USSR country. We had what they called back in the day. It's a two bed, but actually it's a one bed because it was like a living room and a bedroom.
So my parents actually slept in the living room for as long as I can remember. So zero to 16 my dad slept on the sofa. My mom slept on, like, a fold out sofa. And they gave their bedroom to my sister and I. So we had a proper bedroom.
And that was very normal. I never thought, like, this was not normal. This is middle class Azerbaijan, right? To somebody from north America or even the UK listening to this podcast, they would think, like, that's not middle class. So it also depends what middle class is, because it depends on where you've been brought up.
Mimi Ikonn: [00:12:00 - 00:17:02]
Growing up with very little in terms of financial abundance, like, money was always very scarce and we could never just buy what we wanted. I remember my dad would only take me shopping once a year before the school year would start. And I remember getting that pair of jeans and feeling so cool and so grateful as well that at least I got that one little outfit for the whole year. I remember thinking that one day, when I do have that financial abundance in my life, that's when I will feel like I've made it, and that's when I will be truly happy and feel a certain way. And then in my early 20s, my former husband and I, Alex Icon, we've always worked together.
So we met at work, working in a bank, and then started our first business together, which was called, I mean, the business is still around, still is called Luxy Hair. And we started that. And within our first year, we made our first million, which for us, both of us don't come from money. Money was like flying to the moon. And I remember creating a vision board probably a year before we started the business and putting on all these things I would love to buy or experience and places I would want to go.
And a year later, being able to pretty much get most things I would want on my vision board. And yet, very quickly, within the first year of the business, I got extremely depressed, very anxious. And I think at that point in my life, it was a very scary time because I didn't know why it was happening. But obviously now, years later, when I look back, it is so clear why something like this would happen, because I had an identity that I created and I had a whole idea of what life is. And when you get to point a, this is how you feel.
But in reality, the truth was very different. And it was such a blessing, in a way, to get to that point. What a luxury to be able to make that amount of money where you can buy anything or go on any trip you desire and realize, actually, that's not what makes me happy. And then having the luxury to ask yourself, okay, then what makes me happy? What is it what makes me feel alive every morning.
And it was truly like a quota life crisis, I call it, because I was around 25 then, and it was a very dark time in my life. I mean, I'm not going to lie. I had to go to therapists, I went to all kind of alternative healers and tried to look for answers. And in the end, what really helped me was two things. It was doing a silent meditation retreat, which allowed me to really sit with myself and do a lot of introspection and ask myself a lot of questions and reevaluate what my life is all about.
And then also discovering the power of gratitude, which in a way that led us to creating our second business that we're still very much growing and very excited about, which is called Intelligent Change. But going back to that, I think the biggest lessons I've learned is that ultimately it's all about creating a very healthy foundation for yourself of the values that you have as a human being. Like, what are the top five to ten things that you truly care about? And it's going to be fundamentally very different from me to you for some reason. For some people, safety is their top value.
For me, freedom is my top value. Like having the freedom to do what I want, whenever I want with whoever I want. I mean, that's why I created a business, or co created a business with my former husband, because we had similar values as well. So a lot of entrepreneurs are people who have freedom as their top value because we become unemployable at the point where we realize, like, we just got to do things our way. And, yeah, it's a fascinating journey, for sure.
And yeah, I think learning that it's extremely important early on in your journey because then you can do things in a different way where everything is intentional. But I think for many people, I'm curious, of course, to listen to the other episodes of your podcast. I love that you're really going deep into this topic and discovering. I find that oftentimes people can go into this vicious cycle where they will get financial abundance and then it won't make them happy, and they will say, well, now I want more. I want a bigger car, a bigger house, a private jet, a boat, and it's like, yeah, you can get stuck in that for the rest of your life and it will never be enough.
You will fly to the moon and it will still not be enough. So having the courage to sit with yourself and have these very deep questions of like, yeah, you can still enjoy financial abundance, but what is the ultimate goal. Why am I here? That is kind of like the journey I've been on since my early twenty s.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:17:03 - 00:17:51]
I absolutely love that you mentioned everything important than just one answer.
So I lost aware. Which topic am I going to take?
I want to take them all. Let's just pick the best order. So if you don't mind, let's explore your hunger for freedom. So it looks like you had it as a child. It was one of the important motivators for starting a business.
Freedom thing clearly was in you from the beginning. So when you achieved this financial freedom early on and you mentioned gratitude, did you realize that you finally had it or you wanted more of it? You started thinking about it differently, how your dream of freedom changed once you could actually afford anything you wanted.
Mimi Ikonn: [00:17:51 - 00:18:56]
It's a deep question. Actually, nobody has asked me this before, and I've been asked many questions. That makes me even question that because it's like basically what you're asking me is that about my relationship with freedom and how it evolved as I got more freedom. Such an important question. And I think one thing I want to mention, and it's a new insight that I got about freedom because I had this conversation with two friends who are both from Germany.
So they grew up with very different upbringing where they've had a lot of freedom as kids. They were able to travel anywhere in the world, and one of their top values was actually safety. So I'm like, it's fascinating because for me, I had the opposite upbringing because growing up in Azerbaijan, couldn't go anywhere. Really wanted to have that freedom. So I think ultimately that, again, the upbringing is so crucial and always looking at our early childhood years because it can explain why we have certain values as well.
Now, how did my relationship change once I attained freedom? I also realized there's probably such thing as too much freedom as well.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:18:57 - 00:18:57]
Exactly.
Mimi Ikonn: [00:18:57 - 00:20:10]
And sometimes stability is also really important. And it can be very overwhelming to have too much freedom, because when we first started our business, one of our biggest inspiration was Timothy Ferris, who wrote the book the four hour work week. It was truly inspiring to read his book when we didn't know anyone who was doing this type of lifestyle, which was like this. Basically, you can do your business anywhere in the world. You can travel, and you have this ultimate luxury of doing whatever you want with your time anywhere you want in the world.
And having all these case studies that he presented in the book made it really real for us that even though we don't know these people personally, if they can do it, we can do it. And that served as an ultimate inspiration. And yet when we achieved that very much early on in our business, I think literally before we even made our 1st 10,000, we already booked our flight to south of France and spent a month there, then went to Paris. In the first year we lived in Costa Rica, in the States. So we moved around a lot and we quickly realized that actually we need a bit of stability.
Mimi Ikonn: [00:20:10 - 00:21:40]
We need to have at least a base where we are and then we can travel. But even in a way, travel lost its meaning if you're not doing it with purpose. So I love that you asked that question, because I think even myself, I need to still reflect on that relationship I had with freedom, because I love that word and I'm so in a way attached to it. But if I do reflect on my life, it's freedom within boundaries as well. And then it's more enjoyable, right?
Because if it's too much, it can be overwhelming. And I found myself feeling so overwhelmed, like, yes, I can go anywhere. But when you can travel anywhere, unless you have a community of like minded people, whenever you're traveling, it's like nobody can relate to your experience. Right? It's only exciting to be a tourist in a city for a few days and then what?
Right? Again, unless you have a community, you're aimlessly just doing this thing. And I'm sure maybe some people can do that, but I feel like it's a very small percentage of people who could do it sustainably over a long period of time. So we couldn't. And eventually our base was in Toronto and that's know, we got an office and we said, yeah, we need some stability, we need some roots.
And we grew that business and after about eight years, we sold it. But before that we moved to London. And I don't know if you want to go into that part of the conversation.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:21:40 - 00:22:18]
I would like to talk because your business a little bit more, because it's very important. It's very unusual for our community in the sense that you built that business with a very pragmatic, specific purpose, following Tim Ferriss's advice. And that book was also life changing for me. So I totally understand how inspiring that was. But you were very pragmatic about it.
You created this amazing cash flow in your business early on and you didn't have to work very hard in that business once you've started it. And when I met you guys, you just moved to London. It was like ten years.
Mimi Ikonn: [00:22:18 - 00:22:19]
Exactly ten years.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:22:19 - 00:22:44]
And I remember you both sharing with me how beautiful your lifestyle was. And all your travels. And I thought, oh, my God, why did I ever think of building a software company in the first place? This is how people do it. I was so inspired.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:22:33 - 00:22:44]
And then I asked you, so what's now? And your answer absolutely killed me. Because actually, at that point, I don't know if you remember, you said, well, now I want to work.
Mimi Ikonn: [00:22:45 - 00:22:46]
Exactly.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:22:46 - 00:23:04]
And that was before I sold my company and went through this life changing experience. And I thought it was so fascinating. You guys were then sharing, like you had this beautiful idea to build a very sustainable fashion brand.
Mimi Ikonn: [00:23:04 - 00:23:04]
Exactly.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:23:05 - 00:23:14]
But you really wanted to work. So I want to talk to you about then your relationship with work that you avoided in the first business so much.
Mimi Ikonn: [00:23:14 - 00:25:26]
I think, again, the greatest realization from those first two, three years of building Luxy Hair and it becoming such an instant success. Both Alex and I realized that at the end of the day, what truly matters is that you wake up with a purpose and you do something that feels meaningful to you. And even though we both enjoyed luxe hair, and it was exciting because we're learning a lot, and we were doing something at the time that nobody was doing, which was using social media with zero marketing invested, literally, just making videos on YouTube and sharing how to use the products we were selling and telling a good story is basically what we used for the first five years of the business. That's just a side note of how we grew and marketed the business. But basically, what happened later on in the business is that I just realized that what gives me true purpose, again, reflecting back on life and asking myself honestly, what is it that brings joy to me?
And I realized it's like serving people. I feel the most alive when I feel like something that I do brings value and purpose and meaning to someone. And then asking another question like, how can I do that within the business that I have? Okay, I can still do that. No matter what you do, where you are at in life, you can do that in any business.
But also, you have to be honest with yourself. What is the longevity of that? So we always knew that even though Luxy Hair is a great, healthy business that was growing, it's not something we want to do for the rest of our lives. And that's why we positioned that business to eventually sell it. And as I was going through that life, introspection and all of that, and learning how to help myself through the darkest time in my life, and learning all these tools and tips on what can help me on my journey, the second business idea was created, which was intelligent change and I guess the relationship with work changed by just realizing that you can choose something in your life.
Mimi Ikonn: [00:25:26 - 00:25:57]
You can choose to do something in your life that actually doesn't feel like work and fuels you. And to this day, I work crazy hours sometimes, and sometimes I don't work for a week or two or even a month. I mean, I'm still working, but not intensely working. I'm not in the hustle mode, because I think sometimes when you first start a project, and that was the case with Luxy Hair, especially in our early 20s, this was the time to really hustle. And of course, it's not about the age, but, you know, it's like sprints, right.
Mimi Ikonn: [00:25:57 - 00:26:23]
Like, you go fully in and you have to invest a certain amount of your time and energy. People that look back and say, look back at their success and say, well, if I were to go back, I wouldn't work so hard. It's like, yeah, push it, to be honest, because if you didn't work so hard, you wouldn't be where you are today. I don't believe that. I tell people sometimes you just have to invest that time and energy and know that this is the end goal.
Mimi Ikonn: [00:26:23 - 00:28:45]
Let's say you're positioning to sell the business, which in our case, we always knew what Luxy Hair is not something we want to do for the rest of our lives. We need to hustle, hustle, hustle, and then show growth and then sell the business and also sell it in a way where we're not part of the sale. That was also very intentional, something that we hired a general manager who was in charge of day to day so that we're more the visionaries. And at that point, the business actually stayed in Toronto and we moved to London. So it was perfect.
And when we ended up selling eight years later, we were not part of the sale, and we could literally next day do something different. But going back to the relationship with work, it's about, again, choosing what you love to do so you never feel like you are working, but then fully stepping into that mission, that sometimes you go in those sprints and sometimes you take time off to reflect. And when you take time off to reflect, I don't look at that time as, in a way, not working, because sometimes the reflection time, the sabbatical time that many people choose to take also is going to help you on your next journey, on the next project. So it's just as valuable and important. But I don't like the word work.
I don't often use it. I feel like for me, it's like art. I look at what I do as art, and one of my favorite books ever is called Litchpin by Seth Godin. And in fact, anybody who joins our team, it's like a required reading. And the reason I love it so much is because basically, what Seth Godin talks about in Linchpin is that anything you do, whether you're a janitor at a school, cleaning the school, when you take that ownership of your work and look at it as your art and as your purpose and as something that gives you meaning, you will do it differently.
And in the process of doing the work, you will evolve as a human being. And you just bring different parts of yourself, and you look at it as art, you treat it differently. And again, even if it's a business that fails, ultimately, you know that what you have learned through the process has taken you to the next level on your journey. So I don't know if that adds, like, a long winded answer to your question. Do you feel like that?
Answers.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:28:46 - 00:29:19]
I love it. Thinking of work as art takes the responsibility out of it, takes the pressure out of it. It's interesting because I met people who are the opposite, and they actually are very motivated by the sense of duty. They liken to think of their work as duty because they get this satisfaction that I did the right thing. And your view as art is quite different and beautiful. It's more about the process, enjoying the process rather than achieving the goal, I think.
Mimi Ikonn: [00:29:19 - 00:29:51]
Yeah, totally. And one little story I want to share with you, which is fascinating because my friend actually is a little side note, but I think it's interesting because I like to dissect everything psychologically. And my friend is doing a lot of work on her relationship with money. Anyway, she shared a story how she's reading this book, and the woman says, like, look at your first memory of money and how that influences to this day your relationship with money. And she then shared her story, which she doesn't have a healthy relationship with money.
Mimi Ikonn: [00:29:51 - 00:30:12]
And I was listening to her voicemail that she sent me. And as she was sharing her story, I remembered my relationship with money. And my first memory is actually, I had a very sweet uncle who was a famous artist in Azerbaijan, like a painter. And my first memory of money is him coming to visit us. And he would always bring us money.
Mimi Ikonn: [00:30:12 - 00:30:26]
He'd always give us dollars, like all these cousins, me and my cousins. And he was the only family member who would do that. And I always associated that art equals money.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:30:27 - 00:30:28]
Probably subconsciously.
Mimi Ikonn: [00:30:28 - 00:31:19]
Fascinating. I never thought about it until last week, when she shared that story.
And I was like, how interesting. So in my mind, it's like art, and artists can make lots of money. I do business, but I always look at all of our businesses as like, it's art, what we create, the products we create, the services we create. Eventually the retail space that we will create, or like, now we have events as well.
The experience is part of the art that people get to experience, whether they're unfolding the product out of the package that they receive or they're on the website, going through the whole experience of buying all of that can be tasteful and artful. So, yeah, it's just a little insight. I think it's a good question to ask yourself, because ultimately, that relationship sets the tone for so many things, of how we do things and why we do things.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:31:20 - 00:31:50]
Would it be correct to say that you have a desire to create, and it's very important for you, and your business is just your form of creativity? So a painter paints, a business creator creates businesses, and that's why you see it as art, because it's not the same for everyone. Some people are driven by the desire to create, while other people are driven by other intrinsic goals, but not necessarily creation. So for you, it would be creation.
Mimi Ikonn: [00:31:50 - 00:34:18]
I think it's an accurate representation as well as in addition, I would add that anytime we have created a business, it was to solve an issue that I personally had in my life. So it's two things. A, it's partly like an art because you're creating something new that maybe didn't exist or didn't exist in the way that you have created it. But also you identifying a problem that you have.
For example, with the first business, we created hair extension business. The reason we even came up with ideas, because we were getting married, I wanted to have long, thick hair for the wedding. And then I bought hair extensions. And when I bought them, I came home, I put them in my hair, and then it was really bad quality hair extensions, by the way, thank goodness, because otherwise the first business would have never been created. And then, you know, looking at my sister and complaining to her, and then Alex was like, what's hair extensions?
Tell me more about it. So, like, from that problem came the first idea to our first business. And as I shared, like, my personal mental health struggle, as we achieved the success with the first business, the idea for the second business was created. So also, I guess the answer to your question is, I need two things, right? Like, also identifying what value are you bringing, it's an opportunity to bring value because I feel like attaining financial success comes with exchanging value for something.
Again, that's at least how I see it in my experience. And it's like if you create something that solves a problem for someone and creates a solution first to your problem and if you're happy with it, I always think like, there will be at least a million people like yourself in this world. I mean, now what's the population is more than 8 billion people. So if you can create a solution to your problem, you will find at least 1 million people who will want that service or business. And then make it your art, make it the best product, the best service that you can create in the most beautiful design savvy way or sustainable way.
Because that's also a big part of how we do things. Like sustainability is very close to my heart. It's something I really deeply care about. So that's another element that I always feel like brings purpose to what I do. Because you can make it also more sustainable than what exists already in the world currently.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:34:18 - 00:34:26]
So by the time you were free from your first business, you already had very clear idea what you wanted to do next.
Mimi Ikonn: [00:34:26 - 00:34:27]
Absolutely.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:34:27 - 00:35:03]
And you knew you wanted to continue doing business. I remember it very well. You were also bursting with creativity and kindness, because again, the fashion brands you were thinking of doing also came from a very beautiful place of kindness and compassion and care for the planet and animals. Tell me why that business didn't quite work and how you actually came to Intelligent Change. Because it's very interesting where you went and then decided not to pursue.
Mimi Ikonn: [00:35:04 - 00:40:19]
And I think it's also important to talk about, quote unquote failures. I don't believe in that word, to be honest, because I think when you try something, you don't really fail because you have actually tried it. Failing for me is never trying. Right. Never having the courage to do something you really wanted to.
Where in my case, let's talk about Intelligent Change first, because that started very organically in 2013, just because we wanted to create the tools to use. And again, that's when the best businesses, I think, are created. The first product was five minute journal, and now it's sold probably around 2 million copies around the world. And of course, we have other products like productivity planner. We have different games you can play called let's get closer to go into more deep and meaningful relationships.
And in general, what we do now is we help people on their journey of self actualization. But back then, we didn't have this grand vision for this business. It was just, we need to create this journal because we were using gratitude daily already in our lives, but we wanted to simplify the process. And for us it was just like a simple tool that we can create because we did a lot of research in terms of happiness and what makes people happy. And looking at the research of how important it is to focus on all the good in your life and the structure is very simple.
Basically, it's like focusing on all these great things in your life activates this part in your brain called reticular activating system that it's like a brain filter, that when you focus on it, it makes you see the life in a completely different way. You can watch the news every day and read about all the negative and bad things that happen, or you can do quite the opposite. There's the duality of life. Both the good and the bad exist, but it's like, what do I want to choose to focus on, right? Anyway, so we just created that and printed 1000 copies and thought, listen, if nobody buys this, we will just gift this to friends and family for the rest of our lives.
And we were very lucky that it literally took off so quickly. And in fact, Tim Ferriss was one of the biggest advocates and still is. Like two days ago, somebody tagged me in a video where he still uses it like now, ten years later, because we gifted him the product and he was going through a very difficult time in his life and it really helped him. And he featured it in his book and on the podcast many times. And we never ever paid him for that, by the way.
But, yeah, so the business took off organically, but we didn't focus on it for the first almost five, six years because we were still focusing mainly on Luxy Hair. And in the meantime, I did try to do the fashion business, which from the point of view of somebody who really cares about sustainability, I just find that to this day, there's a huge gap in the market where you can go to a brand, a fashion brand, and say, like, anything I buy here is really sustainable, from the stitching in the dress or the blazer, whatever you're buying, or the shoes, to the fabric, that everything can be composted at the end of the life cycle. And I really wanted to create, for me at that point, I didn't wear leather for ten years in my life, and I really wanted to create something that was biodegradable, basically. Compostable even. Biodegradable is not a term that's regulated, by the way.
So you have to say compostable, because it can essentially go back to nature. But through my research and putting a lot of money in that project and it going nowhere, unfortunately. But it was just not the right time at the right place, is that I realized that it was just the fabrics that I was using at the time, they were not actually compostable. And I couldn't bring to the market something that I can't stand.
It took a year, and I was working with the best factories that make, like, Chanel flats and I remember high end designer shoes. But ultimately, the story was not true or authentic, even though they were marketed as biodegradable. It was essentially a polyurethane material, which is plastic, and it's actually way worse than leather. So on my journey of that self discovery, I ended up actually going back to wearing leather. Because in my research, oftentimes the leather, unless it's exotic leather that we use in shoes or bags, is a byproduct of meat industry.
And although I don't personally eat meat, billions of people do. And that leather is still there and it's better to use it for something rather than discard it, right? And at the end of the life cycle, leather will still compose better than polyurethane, will take 1000 years or more. And I still dream about going back into the passion project. I have another idea now that I'm very passionate about, and it's on my list of things I definitely want to dabble with in the next year or so.
But it's not shoes, because shoes is way complicated. I mean, there's so many elements that go into shoemaking. I have so much more respect for anyone who has a shoe brand.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:40:19 - 00:40:26]
So Intelligent Change exactly how much time it takes and effort from you today.
Mimi Ikonn: [00:40:27 - 00:42:21]
I mean, today is a very different story than even a few years ago because ultimately, because the freedom is still my top value, I always am very conscious about only doing in the business what brings me joy and outsourcing everything that doesn't. So, for example, I never ever touch the operations of the business. I never have. Even with the Luxy Hair. I mean, maybe in the beginning stage, the first year.
Yes, of course, I used to do customer service. I used to do social media. I was the one taking all the pictures and managing all the accounts. But of course, as you grow, you realize you cannot do it all. And you have to trust people.
Mimi Ikonn: [00:41:07 - 00:41:38]
Otherwise you're also stifling your growth. And I now mainly focus on the vision, storytelling and being out there spreading the message about the brand. And also product creation, which I really love and enjoy. So a lot of the products that obviously are there are the product of my own journey of learning something. For example, we have different affirmation cards that you can use in different areas of your life, whether health and well being or relationships.
And all of these are the product of my own personal journey of using affirmations as a very powerful, effective tool to rewire my inner self talk. So everything you will see is like things I've tested for years and years that I know have worked for me to bring me to now where I am truly living my dream life. Does that mean my life is perfect? Of course not. There is transitional periods, which is something I'm going through now, but ultimately I feel like I am alive.
I'm living my dream life. Life is exciting and I feel this inner enthusiasm and I feel present and excited, and I think that is truly such a blessing.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:42:21 - 00:42:24]
So that brings us to your transition right now.
Mimi Ikonn: [00:42:24 - 00:43:20]
Yeah. Should we talk about that? We could. Well, yeah. After 16 years together with my former husband Alex Icon, we have decided to separate.
We've announced it very recently, so it's still very new thing for me to speak about it. But again, I think both of us believe that life is to be enjoyed, relationships are to be enjoyed, and we are so grateful for the 16 years we have had and shared with each other. And when something doesn't feel right, we honor that and we trust it. I always believe in being connected with your intuition and how you feel. And I think a big part of why I'm here today is because of my intuition.
Mimi Ikonn: [00:43:20 - 00:43:47]
I've always followed my intuition. Like how we started the podcast today and you asked me that question, what was different? It's like I was a dreamer, right? But it's also like I could have chosen not to believe in my dreams and say like, oh, that's because I think dreams are just like your intuition telling you, like, this is where you got to go, this is where you got to try. This is your potential in a way that you can tap into.
Mimi Ikonn: [00:43:47 - 00:45:15]
And I think most people don't go there out of fear. And for me, yeah, it's very important to be honest with my intuition and listen to it because it's got me here. So if it's got me here, I know it can take me to even greater things in life, but it's still very difficult because the fear is still there. And especially going through this journey, specifically now, of separating after having so many years of an incredible, respectful relationship where we work together, we're best friends. I literally tell Alex all the time, you have managed somehow to replace a whole community of people for me as one person.
So we really did have the most magical relationship. But I think a lot of times when people again will feel something is off and they will not be honest with themselves, then they can come to a point where they start resenting their partner because they're not following their authentic truth. And then that's how things can get toxic and sour over time, where both of us have decided, hey, things have been so great up to now. Let's close this chapter here and keep it great. And now we call it, like, conscious expansion.
There's a term called conscious uncoupling. I don't like that term because I feel like we're still a team. First of all, we have a child, so we'll always be parents, and we'll have to be a team in that regard.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:45:16 - 00:45:18]
Business partners as well, right?
Mimi Ikonn: [00:45:18 - 00:46:31]
Business partners. We still work together in the same capacity, so we're still a pair, but we're just consciously expanding in different ways, romantically. So, yeah, that's the journey we're on. And I'm very grateful to say that we've been navigating it in the most respectful, kind way, which has really touched me deeply because Alex is such an emotionally advanced human being. So made that very easier for me.
And of course, I have the same level of love and admiration and kindness towards him. So we've really supported each other through this and are supporting each other because it's still a process, it's very new, still supporting each other through this process. And I think ultimately, if you can manage to be kind and not take things personally, you can save yourself and each other a lot of heartbreak and not burn the bridge. Right? Like, this is a beautiful relationship.
Why burn the bridge? Right? And I think a lot of times people take things personally and they burn the bridge. And then it just is. Right.
Mimi Ikonn: [00:46:31 - 00:47:52]
There's more than one way to do life. I'm not going to sit here and judge other people's experience, but I think if anybody is listening, I think I want to just allow people to see the opportunity for a different story. It doesn't have to be the way we have seen it done before. I don't come from a family of divorced parents, but all the ones that I have seen from the outside, like friends, parents who have divorced, I've never seen or heard a positive story where it is so rare to have people still be very kind and respectful and loving. And I think when kids are involved.
It's even more important because then we're modeling all of these behaviors to them. And I think oftentimes the kids get traumatized, not because parents separate, but because of how parents then talk about each other to the kids. And that can be so painful to them because they love both parents. How can the children ever choose which person to love or which type to take? That should never be even part of the conversation.
So, yeah, it's been as obviously challenging the experience has been. It's also been beautiful to realize that we're doing it in a way that is so conscious and intentional.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:47:52 - 00:48:49]
I think, as everybody else who knows you, I was completely shocked when I heard the news for the first time because you always came across not only as an amazing couple, but really as one unit. When you told me the news, I thought, oh, my God, I don't even think about separately, which is probably unfair because each of you on your own and there's an absolutely fascinating person, but it's because you have been so incredibly close all this time. You appear to the rest of the world as almost one person. I admire how you're handling this. I've been through a divorce.
It's extremely hard. And I wish you a lot of luck and patience, and I hope it will get you exactly to the dream you want. But if you don't mind me asking, this hunger for freedom, do you think it affected the decision?
Mimi Ikonn: [00:48:51 - 00:51:42]
I think there's definitely an element in that because both of us, even in our wedding vows, and I mean both of us have the same value for freedom, by the way. So probably me more than Alex, even in our vows, when we got married and we had a vow renewal three years ago, which is also not a common thing couples do. But, I mean, three years ago, things were still really perfect and wonderful, so we were very excited to do that. But in our vows to each other, we have never promised each other forever. Because I think both of us were realistic with the relationships in general.
How, like 65% of all marriages end up in divorce and the other 20% stay together because they can not financially separate because they have kids and expenses. And then out of the rest of whatever, 10-15 percent who are together, how many are actually happy together, right? Or how many are together because they are just enmeshed and codependent? And I think we all know the answers. Probably there's like a few percent who are truly choosing consciously to be together.
But going back to the freedom, I think we live in a society where, of course, there's these concepts of marriage. And it's a concept we've created. It's a piece of paper, of course, that binds you. It's a legal contract. But still, there is this desire to explore who you are as a separate entity.
And like you said, I remember when I broke the news to you over a text message. I think it was a voice note. It wasn't a text message. Your response was like, yeah, I did look at you as, like, one whole unit. And part of me also wants to understand, who am I without being like Mimi and Alex, who is Mimi on her own?
So definitely that value of freedom has played a role in me desiring to explore myself. And I think it is healthy to, and I'm not saying you need to, by the way, separate and maybe divorce to explore that, but in my case, it is an important part of my journey, and I feel the only way I can do that is if I separate. But it's ultimately learning how to be whole again, because I think because a lot of times in relationships, people will become codependent and enmeshed, and they won't be aware or it won't bother them. I mean, if you're codependent and you don't mind, that's cool, you can do that. But I think if you realize you mind and you want to figure out who you are on your own, I think you also must honor that.
And yes, it is desire for freedom, for sure. Definitely. Freedom to explore, freedom to be yourself, freedom to find out.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:51:42 - 00:51:49]
And because you work together in everything, which is quite unusual, including, in particular, building your businesses.
Mimi Ikonn: [00:51:49 - 00:51:50]
Absolutely.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:51:50 - 00:52:04]
And I can totally see how you maybe became too close for too long, and there is certainly some logic in it. So what's the next dream?
Mimi Ikonn: [00:52:05 - 00:54:09]
Yes, the next dream. That's a big question. I mean, ultimately, it's to truly embody my authenticity, because I feel like even though, quote, unquote, you can see me as a successful woman who's 37, has built multiple successful businesses, has had an exit, I feel like I've only scratched the surface of my potential. For example, I love public speaking, and I love helping people, not just virtually, but, like, in person. So I'm curious to embody more of the vision I have of myself, which is, again, being more on stage and being more involved in real life and helping people.
How am I going to do that? I'm still exploring different avenues. For example, now we're doing a lot of events for Intelligent Change. We hosted our first summit last year. Well, actually, it was this year.
This year in April. And we closed six senses in Ibiza and had 180 incredible human beings come together. Artists, entrepreneurs, doctors, people from all walks of life, change makers who are very conscious and loving and kind. And it was just truly the best three days of my life. So doing more of that, not just on an exclusive scale, but also on a more inclusive scale in cities where more people can attend and we can create these communities, but I can be at the forefront with people.
So, yeah, connecting more with what makes me happy and brings me joy, which are some of the things I just mentioned and embodying that. Truly facing a lot of my fears and living life from that place of, like, I don't know, but I'm curious to find out. That's exactly where I'm at at the moment. And I haven't felt this alive and this myself probably ever. So I know I'm on the right path.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:54:09 - 00:54:21]
Beautiful. You mentioned that Alex replaced all communities in life for you. So how did you go about keeping friendships alive?
Mimi Ikonn: [00:54:21 - 00:56:46]
Yeah, I'm on the extroverts. I've always had a lot of friends. I think the only difference that I see now and before is that even though I have many relationships and many friends, oftentimes I'd be the one asking the questions and holding the space and allowing others to be vulnerable. And I would only be vulnerable with Alex, but I wouldn't be open up fully and truly to most of my friends because I had know and he played that role, poor thing. Like, he played a lot of different roles.
He managed it so beautifully. But now I'm allowing my friends to hold that space. And that's been a really beautiful journey on itself because they feel great about our relationship because a lot of them confess now that we've always wanted to be there for you, but you're so strong and you've never, in a way, put your guard down. And now I'm putting my guard down and allowing them to hold that safe space for me finally, for once, and allowing myself just to be and share.
And I'm learning a lot in the process of being vulnerable. It's a very new experience for me. It wasn't easy at first, but the more I do it, the stronger the bond and the friendships become. So in this very short period of time where I've been going through this very difficult emotional period of my time, like, realizing that I want to separate and then processing that for months before actually coming to a decision to do that, they've just held the safe space of being there for me and not judging or telling me what to do, but just believing that I can figure it out. And, yeah, through the process, I realized, actually, I already have such an incredible community of people, I just need to ask for help more often.
And actually they're there. Like I've built it without realizing. I just haven't fully tapped into all my relationships until now. And in a way, it's been beautiful as well for Alex, where he's now closer to his friends or his family, where I also replaced, I guess, partly that need for him. So again, conscious expansion into other areas of life and other relationships, it's been truly beautiful thing to experience and explore.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:56:46 - 00:56:56]
So you've mentioned purpose a few times, and we talked about how you align your life intentionally with your purpose. But how would you define your purpose right now?
Mimi Ikonn: [00:56:57 - 01:00:23]
Big question again, I love how deep you like digging. Quite deep. Purpose has always been a big part of my life because I have this desire and need to always understand why things happen, why I do what I do, why I am the way I am. And for me, if I had to distill the purpose, because it can be like, there's so many different areas you can go into, but ultimately it's about love. Maybe it's too simple, but it's like, I think if you look at life or business or what we do, it's like there is fear and there's love.
You can live through the mindset of fear scarcity, or you can live through the mindset of love and abundance. And I think everything I do, I want to embody that first myself, because you cannot preach something you're not. So doing the introspection first, psychoanalysis on myself and being like, hey, am I truly living my truth? Am I truly living from the place of abundance and love and kindness and then spreading that through the way I live, through the way I do business, through the way I do relationships. So for me, it's like love, beloved, spread love.
I almost tattooed it on my hand years ago and then last minute canceled the appointment because I was like, I don't know if I actually need it on my hand. I think I'll remember. But for me, yeah. When I was going through my darkest period of life and I was asking myself, why am I here? What's my purpose?
What's my purpose? And it was like, love. Always choose love, be love and spread love. And one of my favorite quotes is like, also, love is the answer to all the questions of your mind because the mind can always go into all these spirals. But ultimately, if you always choose love and to do things from the perspective of love.
The answer is very simple. If you have a dispute. We had a dispute in one of our businesses because we have other businesses besides intelligent change and smaller projects and businesses. But there was a huge dispute where we had to go from being majority owner of the business into minority. And at first, for example, the ego was ready to fight and like, oh, well, it's not fair, but why?
What's the point? Where is that going to get you? And very quickly processing all of that upset and anger into, like, I'm going to choose to love. I actually have so much other goodness in my life that I can focus on, like, the small project and business is so not worth it. And again, choosing love in that particular case and scenario, instead of going to court and fighting for years and spending money and your energy really makes a difference.
You're like, okay, you let go. You're like, I'm going to love. And I'm going to love this person as well who maybe didn't do the right thing or hurt me or said the wrong thing or was not very authentic. But ultimately, it's like how you choose to live life and from which angle you're reacting is inspiring everybody around you in a positive or negative way. So, yeah, love, beloved, spread love.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:00:23 - 01:00:31]
So it sounds like you've committed and you prioritize love over pretty much everything else. Would that be correct to say?
Mimi Ikonn: [01:00:31 - 01:00:36]
Absolutely. I think ultimately everything goes down to that. That's why we're here.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:00:36 - 01:00:44]
So how would you define your identity today or describe. Because that probably includes love.
Mimi Ikonn: [01:00:45 - 01:01:41]
Yeah. I think if I had to define where I am going or what I want to truly embody in my existence and the way I do things is unconditional love in the way. Again, I treat people in the way I present myself and how I react. Again, it's not always easy, by the way. Right.
Like, I'm a human being with an ego. Obviously, anybody, I think, who attains a level of financial success does have to have a healthy level of ego, but I keep it in check. And for me, that is a huge topic. Maybe even a book I'll write eventually. Journey to unconditional love.
But it's definitely something I'm constantly researching and kind of doing the introspection, whether I am actually embodying it day to day in my small actions.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:01:41 - 01:01:45]
Do you see the spiritual growth becoming more loving?
Mimi Ikonn: [01:01:47 - 01:03:04]
100%. The spiritual growth is such a big part of everything we do. And again, for me, I don't need to identify it as one religion. Or a spiritual practice. But I think ultimately all the inner work you do is your spiritual work.
Doesn't matter what you call it, what you label it. I personally don't like any labels, and I don't subscribe to any ideology, but I research all of them because you can learn something from different religions, different philosophies that are out there, but yet you don't need to subscribe to any single one of them. You can take whatever resonates and leave the rest. And ultimately, that's how you create your own. And funny enough, I had this conversation with my daughter last night when we had dinner, and she told me that she has a religious class, which I didn't know, but they teach them about religions.
And I said, did they ask you what religion you are? And she said, yeah, mommy. And I told them my religion is love. And actually, because that's how I always talk about it at home. Of course, that's our religion.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:03:04 - 01:03:05]
That's so beautiful.
Mimi Ikonn: [01:03:05 - 01:03:39]
Yeah, absolutely. And I think if everybody had that religion, ultimately we would be in a way more peaceful place because we would then realize that ultimately we're all one and just experiencing reality as separate entities. But the truth that I feel inside is that we're just a reflection of each other. Eight plus billion different cells of one whole body of whatever you want to call it, universe or God or whatever you want to call it.
Again, not labeling it, but yeah.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:03:39 - 01:03:51]
I think if you try to find commonalities between different religions, what is the message they are really trying to tell us through stories? It's really about love.
Mimi Ikonn: [01:03:51 - 01:03:52]
Absolutely.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:03:52 - 01:04:00]
Just told in different ways that a particular culture is more likely to understand and relate to. And that's the message.
Mimi Ikonn: [01:04:00 - 01:04:05]
Sometimes the stories can get twisted and abused.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:04:05 - 01:04:06]
Of course.
Mimi Ikonn: [01:04:07 - 01:04:12]
To serve a personal agenda, but ultimately, yeah, if you distill it, it's all about love.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:04:12 - 01:04:13]
The wisdom.
Mimi Ikonn: [01:04:14 - 01:04:19]
The truth is the same in every religion, every ideology, spiritual ideology. It's ultimately.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:04:19 - 01:04:27]
Which is basically growing out of our ego and joining the Universe.
Mimi Ikonn: [01:04:27 - 01:04:28]
The oneness.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:04:28 - 01:04:36]
Yeah, exactly. Tell me about your experience, if any, with psychedelics.
Mimi Ikonn: [01:04:37 - 01:04:46]
I'm definitely not the person to talk about it, but it's a good question because I think it's still important to talk about psychedelics because it's such a popular.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:04:46 - 01:04:47]
Exactly.
Mimi Ikonn: [01:04:47 - 01:05:56]
I don't know. Can I say substance or topic? Maybe.
I personally have never been too drawn to any mind altering substances, whether natural or not. I think in my whole life I've only tried a quarter of a pill of ecstasy. That's how far. And I've done weed maybe twice. So I'm pretty pure, and I've always used meditation as a source of mind altering experience.
And the reason I prefer meditation to, let's say, any of the psychedelics, is that when I listen to people's experience, and I have so many friends who do it, so I have zero judgment. If you feel compelled to do it, wonderful, do it. Explore in a safe way with a shaman or like somebody professional who knows what they're doing. But don't jump on this bandwagon just because it's a trendy thing to do. I think that's really important thing to keep in mind because I think oftentimes again we get swayed into these ideas and trends just because everybody is doing it.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:05:56 - 01:05:57]
Of course.
Mimi Ikonn: [01:05:58 - 01:08:18]
But if it doesn't resonate, you don't have to be strong again with your intuition and ask yourself, do I need it? So for me, when I reflect on what they get from their psychedelic experience and what I get from my meditative experience of like sitting down my butt and meditating for an hour, it's very much a similar experience, which is just getting the insight and the wisdom. Because a lot of times people do psychedelics when they're searching for either feeling more connected or they're going through a difficult time in their life and they're looking for answers or they're searching for the truth. But the truth is within, and you can access it, whether through psychedelics or whether through sitting in contemplation or a certain meditation practice which I use
Vipassana, and I think it's important to mention because Vipassana is a very particular type of meditation that a, you don't have to pay for when you learn it. They have centers all around the world. It's free, and you can only donate if you complete the ten day silent meditation course. And the reason I know that because the first time I went, I ran away on day three or four, I did, because I had a very different idea of what meditation would be. I thought it's like relaxing and I'm going to feel so Zen.
And in fact it was like the hardest thing I had to do ever. Well, before I had my child, I would say that was the hardest thing. But yeah, then eventually I went back and I completed the ten day course. But they only will take your donation if you feel like you've benefited from the practice, which I think is so pure and beautiful. So I think the reason I love the postana so much is because it's not a fantasy imaginative type of meditation where although those maybe have different benefits, like visualization, meditation.
This one you work only with what is, which is your breath and your body sensation. So you scan the breath and you scan the body, and as you do that, you are unpeeling. The conditioning, the trauma layers of yourself that don't belong to you. And you get to the core and the truth of what you are, actually. So it's an intense practice, but it's also an enlightening practice as well.
Mimi Ikonn: [01:08:19 - 01:08:34]
And every time I hear of people's psychedelic experience, it just reminds me of my experience of practicing vipassana. So that is the path I choose to take. Now, again, I'm not saying I'm never going to do it, but I've never been called to do it. I'm curious, have you had much experience with it?
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:08:34 - 01:08:34]
Not really.
Mimi Ikonn: [01:08:34 - 01:08:35]
Not really as well.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:08:35 - 01:08:56]
So I'm being selfish. I'm curious how it works for other people. But I do have so many friends who experience with that and they swear by it, including if they do it during relationship crisis. It seems to be something that helps people, but I absolutely see what you mean.
Mimi Ikonn: [01:08:56 - 01:09:16]
But I've also heard of stories where relationship seemed great and then they did it and next thing they broke up with the person. So it can also trigger you to maybe see something you were denying. We label these things or like, oh, somebody separated or broke up. It's so bad. I'm so sorry.
But in reality it could be the best thing that could happen to them.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:09:16 - 01:09:29]
But what you're describing is very consistent actually to what people who do. Do psychedelics quite a lot describe because they often say that it's a shortcut to where you can get by meditating for days. It's an easier way to do it.
Mimi Ikonn: [01:09:29 - 01:10:05]
But I think the more sustainable way to do it is to do through meditation. But of course, if you're in desperate need, do what is required. But I always encourage people to look into meditation because it's free, it's something you can do anywhere and you don't need anybody. All you need is you. And it's so beautiful and it's truly life changing because as I was talking about earlier in my early twenty s and that quarter life crisis, I was super anxious, super depressed.
Mimi Ikonn: [01:10:05 - 01:10:21]
I had panic attacks. I got to the point where, and I'm an extrovert and I'm a freedom loving person who loves to travel. I got to the point at one point that I couldn't anymore fly. I was so anxious to fly. I was so anxious to go in the lift.
Mimi Ikonn: [01:10:21 - 01:10:47]
I was so anxious to go into a social gathering with a lot of humans. So it really started debilitating my life. So that's why I couldn't ignore it. And for me, meditation really saved my life. I went to the ten day deposit meditation and then I came out of it and I had to get on like two flights to fly to Costa Rica because Alex was there.
Mimi Ikonn: [01:10:47 - 01:11:13]
And it's not that the fear wasn't there, but it was not in control anymore. So I did it, obviously, and I survived and it was fine. Like, I liberated myself, right? And I think oftentimes the more you listen to the fear, the more the fear has a control over you. And then you start living your life again from the point of view of the fear rather than the love.
Mimi Ikonn: [01:11:13 - 01:12:03]
And that's why love became such a big part of how I view the lens through which I view my reality is like, if I choose love, I always choose to trust and know that I'm going to be fine because the fear is the opposite of that. We don't want to go there because there's so many scenarios that could happen, but ultimately, I trust it's all going to be fine. And I'm loved, that I'm protected and I'm safe. But I think when you feel that truly, when you connect to that inner knowing and to connect, I think it helps to have a daily practice. Even though I'll be honest right now, I'm not currently practicing daily, but I go through periods of life where I will practice meditation daily and it'll get me to that place and then I'll be like, oh, I'm so good, I don't need this anymore.
Mimi Ikonn: [01:12:03 - 01:12:09]
And then I'm a human, I'm not perfect and I think that's okay as well.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:12:09 - 01:12:14]
Mimi, thank you so much. What a delight. I absolutely loved our conversation. Thank you for opening.
Mimi Ikonn: [01:12:14 - 01:12:37]
I really enjoyed the deep questions. I like how you like to uncover the true depth and not just keep it shallow. So I think it's a true skill to be able to go so deep in conversations. And I appreciate what you're doing and I'm really excited to also hear and uncover more stories that you bring on your lovely podcast.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:12:37 - 01:12:37]
Thank you so much.
