Jay Radia. Venture Studio as a Post-Exit Path

Written By Anastasia Koroleva

Episode - 54

Jay Radia. Venture Studio as a Post-Exit Path

 
 
 

My friend Jay Radia doesn’t just build businesses—he builds momentum.

He’s a three-time tech founder and a prolific angel investor. Since his last exit two years ago, he’s been building Blissgrowth—a venture studio that partners exclusively with exited founders.

Why did he choose this path? What has he learnt so far? Was it the right move?

For a while, Jay also co-hosted The Joyful Entrepreneur Podcast—a top 10 show about success and happiness.

Today, we explore how Jay is designing his venture studio not just for financial success—but for joy, purpose, and meaning.

And what he’s learned from both his own journey and the many post-exit founders he works with.

What We Discussed:

00:00:00 - Introduction 

00:04:23 - Emotional journey post-exit

00:06:00 - Experiencing emptiness despite success

00:07:15 - Defining the Post-Exit journey (Pause, Reset, New Chapter)

00:08:15 - Avoiding the corporate trap post-sale

00:09:35 - Discovering he's not a CEO type

00:10:15 - Founding Blissgrowth and love for early-stage building

00:11:30 - Venture Studio vs Angel Investing and Accelerators

00:13:15 - Pros and cons of running a Venture Studio

00:15:15 - Team dynamics and focus of Blissgrowth

00:16:45 - Common misconceptions about Venture Studios

00:17:45 - How his studio compares to others

00:19:15 - Angel investing vs Venture Studio involvement

00:21:15 - Journey from emptiness to fulfillment

00:23:15 - Connecting with intuition through stillness and yoga

00:25:15 - Daily practices to cultivate inner clarity

00:26:60 - The power of quiet and introspection

00:28:15 - Rewiring mindset and deep inner work

00:30:00 - Changing his relationship with fear

 

00:31:30 - From fear to freedom and growth

00:33:00 - The psychology of purpose and contribution

00:34:15 - Observations on other exited founders and finding purpose

00:35:45 - Why decoding purpose is a unique journey

00:37:15 - Role of spirituality and Indian heritage in self-discovery

00:39:45 - Spirituality as a path to love and connection

00:41:15 - Overcoming skepticism and redefining success

00:43:15 - AI, intellect, and spiritual work

00:44:15 - Creating and renaming his podcast: Joyful Entrepreneur

00:46:15 - Why he paused podcasting despite success

00:47:45 - Lessons learned from podcasting

00:49:15 - The power of public self-expression for exited founders

00:50:45 - Normalizing post-exit struggles in the founder community

00:52:15 - Redefining success after financial freedom

00:53:45 - Jay’s 5-pillar framework for purpose

00:55:45 - How Blissgrowth aligns with his purpose

00:57:15 - Building to scale vs building to exit

01:00:15 - Should founders build with an exit in mind?

01:01:45 - Jay’s commitment to Blissgrowth long-term

  • Anastasia Koroleva: [00:00:01 - 00:00:11]

    Welcome to Exit Paradox, where we explore what actually happens after a successful business exit. I'm your host, Anastasia Koroleva. 


    Jay Radia: [00:00:14 - 00:00:29]

    What am I doing here? Like, why am I working? What's my purpose? And all these essential questions started coming through and it was definitely difficult because I thought I was happy and obviously someone outside would describe me as happy, but inside there was something missing. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:00:29 - 00:01:40]

    My friend Jay Radia doesn't just build businesses, he builds momentum. He's a three time tech founder and a prolific angel investor. Since his last exit two years ago, he's been building BlissGrowth, a venture studio that partners exclusively with exited founders. Why did he choose this path? What has he learned so far? Was it the right move? For a while, Jay also co hosted the Joyful Entrepreneur podcast, a top 10 show about success and happiness. Today we explore how Jay is designing his venture studio not just for financial success, but for joy, purpose and meaning. And what he's learned from both his own journey and the many post Exit founders he works with. Hi Jay. So it finally is happening. You're here in the studio. Took me a while to persuade you, so I'm very excited you're here. 


    Jay Radia: [00:01:40 - 00:01:41]

    Awesome. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:01:41 - 00:02:07]

    Because you and I have had the most fascinating conversations and I know how much wisdom you have, which is very, very relevant to my audience. So if you don't mind, I'd love you to tell us a little bit about yieldify because we will focus on that exit first and then of course we'll talk about your whole life and we will not leave any stone unturned. 


    Jay Radia: [00:02:07 - 00:04:28]

    Thank you. I always set the expectation high. So look, look, I'll tell you a bit about Yieldify and then yeah, we can chat about the other areas. So yieldify was my first real company, I'd say before that I played around and tried a lot of different things. If I rewind a bit back before that. So I was actually in the corporate world. So after I studied economics at ucl, I then decided to work in banking. I went for a stable job, something which I thought was exciting, working on the trading floor. But I soon realized it probably wasn't for me. My heart was guiding me to, to, you know, really telling me that I need to do something that is more heartfelt or something that will make me happy. And eventually I was working on a few projects on the side whilst in a corporate job which was fun, lots of hours because you'd be working from seven to seven, then you're hustling on the side and then, you know, I did that for quite a while and Then it got to a point where I said, look, I want to do this full time. And I did go back and forth, but eventually yieldify, which was my first company, came through and the premise behind that was around shopping. So if you go right now to a shop, there's a sales assistant and they guide you what to buy. And if you could rewind 10, 12 years ago in 2013, that would exist. But if you went online, every single visitor on a website would see the same experience. So whether you were a male or female, or if you're buying a present for someone else, or if you're buying were a low customer or a first time customer, you'd all be shown the same experience. So essentially yieldify built a technology which was like a front end. It would sit on the top of the website and it will recognize what type of visitors arrived on the website and based off that would dynamically change the website. So that was the concept and it sounded good. Unfortunately people were interested in the product and it was one of those ideas which just worked and we onboarded customers very quickly as a venture backed journey and we raised money from various VC funds and yeah, it led to a lot of opportunities for me. You know, we had different offices around the world, we had like a thousand customers. So I lived that journey. But yeah, that's where, that's where it started my whole tech journey. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:04:28 - 00:05:06]

    So you sold it two years ago. And normally I don't actually invite people to this podcast so early in the in their journey, but I'm happily making an exception for you because I think one of the amazing fascinating things about you personally is just how much you've grown in those two years, how much you've learned, how much you've tried. And I'd love you to walk me through that journey emotionally for you. So let's go back to that moment when you sold yieldify. How did you feel and what did you think think at the time? 


    Jay Radia: [00:05:06 - 00:07:35]

    So I think I say my journey on like the post Exit probably started about seven years ago, so it wasn't actually with the Unify exit. Oddly, my second company, Reach Desk, had an exit for me before Yodify, so which was two years before that. So I guess I've been, I've had more time to process and for me, I think what really grew me most on that post Exit Paradox as your podcast is related to was, was when I was actually New York. So I was in New York in 2017, 2018, I was living there and I remember, I still remember the moment I was in this apartment, really nice apartment, I treat myself. And I felt I had everything in my life at that moment. Like I had this company, Yodify, which was doing really well, we're winning all the awards and all that externality, external aspects of success was there. I had some great, great family, friends. So I had, I thought I had everything. I was in good shape. Like all the boxes in this external life was ticked. And I just, I still remember I was in this apartment in the center of Manhattan and I just felt empty. I still remember the exact moment and I didn't know what it was. It was like literally I had like a tennis ball in my throat or something. I felt this moment of just what is life about? And suddenly all these questions started coming through to me of like, what am I doing here? Like, why am I working? What's my purpose? What? And all these essential questions started coming through and it was definitely difficult because I thought I was happy and obviously someone outside would describe me as happy, but inside there was something missing. This was all happening whilst I was building my company. So it was a bit strange because normally happens once you've sold the company. But yeah, for me those. That conversation started happening and that then led me on my journey of trying to discover, I always say in, you know what, this whole journey of post exit the founder, there's like three phases. There's like the pause phase where you pause and you go, okay, what's just happened in my life over the last three, five, ten years. And like you pause and reflect and then your second phase is then like you reset and you're trying to figure out, okay, what am I doing right and what needs to be changed and adjusting. And then your third one is like the new chapter, the new you. So like I was going through that, those phases whilst building my company, which is quite odd, probably. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:07:35 - 00:07:40]

    Well, you did exit personally from another company at the time. 


    Jay Radia: [00:07:40 - 00:07:41]

    Yeah. Halfway through. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:07:42 - 00:07:47]

    Yeah. So you had an exit that triggered it. It's just that you also had another company at the same time. 


    Jay Radia: [00:07:47 - 00:08:21]

    Yeah. So in Unify I went to. I became a board member as well. So I wasn't full time in the job, so I had. Fortunately I had some space as well. So I think my, my case is probably quite unique in that I wasn't full time in a job and I had an exit which was all planned by the way, which I can explain. But yeah, so, but that whole process that one goes through whilst selling the company, I guess I was doing it whilst running a company and then eventually out so it's. I did have that space, which was quite fortunate. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:08:22 - 00:08:24]

    So you mentioned you actually planned it to be like that. 


    Jay Radia: [00:08:24 - 00:09:41]

    Hey, want to go? Yeah. So one of my difficult things I can't do is I don't think I can work for another corporate again. I just can't. It's like my worst personal nightmare. And I knew the moment yieldify was about to sell and there's two phases. There's one moment we're actually going to sell and we didn't come to alignment, it didn't work out and then we sold it the second time. And during that whole process I reflected and I was, I was so worried about working for a corporate for one, two, three years. It was just my, it was just something that I couldn't personally put myself through. I really feel that the, the way someone works best is if they're free, they're given that level of creativity and I'm worried and I know that in a corporate that may not be possible. So through some ways that I aligned with the board, basically I transitioned to be a board member and then. Which meant that if a sale took place, I wouldn't be part of that. And yeah, I don't, you know, I don't see myself running a company again so therefore there's no risk of me being acquired. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:09:42 - 00:09:57]

    So yeah, I remember we talked about this how you don't think you are the right CEO material. Yeah, you are much better at the earliest, more creative stage. Stage. 


    Jay Radia: [00:09:57 - 00:09:58]

    Yeah, I think. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:09:58 - 00:10:02]

    When did you discover that and like how did you get that clarity? 


    Jay Radia: [00:10:02 - 00:11:35]

    Yeah, I feel that. I feel I'm a good CEO, but I don't think I'm a great CEO. And what I mean by that is I, I think I'm, I'm good when there's like less than 100, 200 people. Like I can deal with that. But once it gets past that, what I find is that it's just, you know, it's a lot of people management, it's a lot of just operational management holding accountability to, you know, tens or hundreds of people. I don't, I, I really miss the creative aspect and the bit of truly connecting with a small team. I always say, like bliss growth, which is, I'm forwarding a little bit but you know, in the venture studio it's only a small team. It's only like 10, 12 of us and it's like a band, we all play together, we work together and I really like that once it gets too big, you lose that touch. So for me, I don't Feel that's where I do my best work now. I was very fortunate in yieldify, my first company. Our chairman was an extremely strong operator when I learned a lot from him and he, you know, scaled out lots of companies. He's IPO'd company. So I learned a lot. So I saw what, you know, the optimal execution operator looks like in me and I learned a lot from him and I'm very grateful for it. But I don't think that's probably what I should be doing in this lifetime. Like, I don't. I. I really enjoy the start. I enjoy the incubation of a company. I enjoy the ideation and finding the founders to work with me. So, you know, the venture studio I run, I really love that. That's what. Where I feel I'm supposed to be. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:11:35 - 00:11:52]

    Let's talk about that. Because so many of our company friends who exited companies are dreaming about or trying to build venture studios. Yeah, I'd love you to talk about pros and cons of that. Like if I asked you, shall I do it? 


    Jay Radia: [00:11:52 - 00:16:26]

    Yeah. Yeah. It's an interesting conversation. I definitely have had a lot of people come to me and quiz me and put a torch in my face and say, you know, what's really going on. And I feel what people don't realize is that I've always wanted a venture studio. Even before yieldify, I was running multiple companies. So in the back of our minds, my brother and me, who I do the venture studio with, and there's a team of us, we both looked at each other and we knew at some moment we were going to build a venture studio. We don't know when, but we knew it. So if you think about it all through those now, this was in 2013 and we'd been building companies probably from like 2011. So you could probably see for the last 12 years it's been in US. And during those times, you know, I officially probably started the venture studio when I started ReachDesk. That was the first company technically. But what happened was the company started growing so quick that it actually required me to jump in and help more. But I had always been doing the research. It was something I've always wanted to do. So I think I was meant to do it. This is what I feel now on the outside looks exciting. There's, you know, you're running multiple companies. Each venture studio is also very unique. We can talk about my one probably in a bit more later. But each venture studio is different because you might build like three companies a year all the way to 10 or 20 a year. And there's also, there's this line of like, is a venture studio as an accelerator? Right? Like venture studio in my mind is actually helping on day zero with the ideation and helping with the founders. Now when people come to me with that, with the, with the conversation, should I do it, I ask them questions about what they're into and because you've really got to be okay building multiple companies and be hands on. It's super time intensive to a point where, you know, I think I've mentioned to you before where like, if I had a family with lots of kids, I don't know if I'd do a venture studio because it is so much work and time. So I think that's a big question, like, are you prepared to put in the time? Do you like being hands on in companies? That's obviously exciting because I think a lot of people have done some angel investing or have done like venture tickets, let's say. But you realize you don't get as hands on, whereas in a venture studio you do. However, once the company hits a certain scale and you get series A investors, you're not really that hands on anymore. You're just against someone on the cap table at times. Yes, the founder will call me up when he's got a problem, but that touch and that involvement does go down. So then that's another interesting aspect to work through. It's very capital intensive. People don't know this but you know, my brother and me and the team, like we're investing like, you know, over a million each, like just to keep the thing running. At the same time, sometimes investing because the first capital comes from us. So. And you're taking no salary, right? So the question is, you know, it does take millions to run and you're going to be making no salary, so you're waiting for the payout. So are you prepared to do that? And some people probably can, but it is a financial constraint. Unless you raise a big fund on the back of a venture studio, which you can, but then, but then you're going to lose that freedom and you won't. You're then going to have to have a lot of like structure and milestones and it gets very intense and which will then lose all that freedom that you desired. So it's once you work through these and then you also need to have a focus like so for us we focus only on B2B enterprise software. Some people might say, hey, that's a bit boring. I want to do lots of Things, and that's okay, but then you're never going to be strong in one area. So that's another factor is like, do you. Are you okay with just staying down one, like, single lane? So that's another data point. Um, and then I think another big part is the team at the start, as I mentioned, the bliss growth is like a band and like each person's got a different area of strength. Like, my brother is obsessed about product. We've got another guy on our team who's obsessed about engineering. Someone's obsessed about go to market. So, and that obsession needs to be there with that one person because they need to own it. And at the same time, you all need to be able to work as a group or a band. Right. And so therefore you need to have strong people in all these parts. So I do think you need a good number of good co founders at the start for it to work because there is so much to get done. If someone's listened to that and said, that sounds super exciting and none of them I'm afraid of, then I think there might be something there to check. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:16:26 - 00:16:38]

    Yeah. But it's interesting that lots of people are considering that option because things, they actually don't want to work as hard as they did in the first company, so they think that it will be easier, but it's not your experience. 


    Jay Radia: [00:16:42 - 00:17:37]

    The beautiful part is I have multiple companies that I can work with. Right. And I pick the founders and I, you know, it aligns. So that's. That is one of my, like, joys of life to work with these founders. But in the end it's, yeah, you are sacrificing other parts. I think people don't see those layers. You know, when I spoke to other people that run Bench Studios, they look at me go, are you sure? Are you crazy? Like, so they would always say that to me. And I can see why now because it is so many aspects you're juggling now. I'm still early in my journey, I'd say I feel now I'm starting to get my groove into it. But it's definitely been a lot of workplace. You have to put lots of processes in place. You know, you want to make sure these. You are genuinely giving value, these cost to these portfolio companies who are my customers technically. But yeah, now I'm. Now I'm in a great place, but it's definitely been a lot of work. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:17:38 - 00:17:42]

    Are you physically in the same space at least some? 


    Jay Radia: [00:17:42 - 00:17:43]

    Yeah. So a couple of days a week? Yes. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:17:43 - 00:17:44]

    Okay. 


    Jay Radia: [00:17:44 - 00:17:45]

    A couple days a week? Yes. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:17:45 - 00:17:47]

    Otherwise they, they have their own. 


    Jay Radia: [00:17:47 - 00:17:56]

    Yes, fortunately I've worked with a lot of them before so we know how we all work so that's helped. But yeah, we find we get a lot of work done just remote. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:17:56 - 00:18:11]

    So how would you compare your venture studio model your one to an accelerator and also to very hands on angel investing. Yeah, how is it different? 


    Jay Radia: [00:18:11 - 00:20:32]

    So within with us we work with the founders on the ideation process. So generally they don't have an idea and they usually just one co founder potentially and therefore we're playing as the second co founder and they're really looking for someone that they can lean on and at the same time enjoy working with. So then that's where we come in. So in summary, like we, we help with ideation, we believe we're the, the right partner on our website's exceptional partner. But what I mean by that is we're builders as well and we don't take any preferences or anything like that. All of our terms are very fair. They're all like align with the founder which is also quite unique and we've got all the playbooks and systems to help them. So if that's what they want, that's, that's the venture studio model. That's our one. But I think a lot of the ventures have got some form of similarities around those, those aspects. Now an accelerator is a bit different. They're, they don't, they've sometimes got an idea and the level of support that they're going to get is much less. It's for you know, if you may have an idea, you may be a first time founder, you have an idea and auxiliary is a great place to go join one of the, you know, leading accelerators is a, is probably the right path. We're focused only on exited or second time founders. The accelerators will probably accommodate for both. And accelerators is more about, you know, being part of a community, having 100, 200 startups in a batch and then you go from there. And I've got various friends running those and I think it's a great model as well for that type of founder. And then obviously angel investing is you know, really at this point they've got an idea and they probably got some form of market fit hopefully. And you're investing but you know, you're writing a small ticket, you know, owning probably less than 1% of the company and hoping that it becomes successful. Now I've done 40 of those. For me I didn't feel that I was enough like you're not getting Enough. It's not enough hands on for me. Like I want to be a bit more involved and at the same time it's just betting on, you know, a big portfolio, you don't know which one's going to do good. Whereas in the venture studio I've got a bit more say enough and I know the idea a lot better. So they're all different. So you have to. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:20:32 - 00:20:36]

    How many do you have? How many companies do you have in your venture studio? 


    Jay Radia: [00:20:36 - 00:20:39]

    Excluding unify, we have seven at the moment. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:20:39 - 00:20:42]

    So you have 40, you angel invested in. 


    Jay Radia: [00:20:43 - 00:20:43]

    Yeah. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:20:43 - 00:20:45]

    And there you're quite passive. 


    Jay Radia: [00:20:45 - 00:20:51]

    Yeah, passive. I've paused that now because it's so capital intensive with Blissgrove. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:20:51 - 00:20:54]

    Yeah, I thought 47 would be. 


    Jay Radia: [00:20:54 - 00:21:41]

    Yeah, yeah, exactly. So but when those. It's. I'm very passive. Obviously some of the founders reach out and they want help and I'll try to help as I can but you know, I pretty much tell them when I invest, said, look, you're not going to get much of my time because it's elsewhere. Obviously I want them to do the best. But you know, I think what I've realized is that I really enjoy helping the founders, probably like you and other people. And then therefore, as I started writing bigger tickets on angel to try to see if that would make me more connected, but still it didn't because at the end day, once you get a big VC on or a big investor, they normally hold the relationship and you don't really. I felt sometimes I give my advice but you know, it doesn't, it's sometimes not listen. So it's okay. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:21:41 - 00:22:14]

    So if we go back to that moment when you were standing in that beautiful Manhattan apartment thinking, what's my purpose? And I know for a fact that you're in a very good place today and you have a sense of purpose and you do find your life fulfilling. If we just look at that journey, what do you think really moved the needle for you? Coming from no purpose and feeling empty to now being purpose driven and fulfilled? 


    Jay Radia: [00:22:15 - 00:24:54]

    Yeah, I think it's definitely got different phases that journey and what you always find is that, you know, when you look back a year or two years, wherever you are, you thought you figured stuff out, but then you look back and go you didn't. So every time, you know, even what I say today. Exactly. So. So I feel like the biggest, the biggest lesson is still the biggest lesson for me today is just trying to connect more within myself. So I say my heart or my intuition and that I think in life as we all Know, we're always leading with our mind, and you have to lead more with the heart and listen to that heart, listen to that voice. And, you know, in that moment when I was in the Manhattan flat, I feel I was just going 100 miles per hour and I was trying to control things and I was trying to go from A to B. And that was not healthy because I wasn't checking on my heart and seeing what that wanted. So I then had to try to. Because I say, like, the heart is all like. I say, like our body is like a vessel and we're moving in life. And like, the heart is like the electricity or this intuition is electricity. That's actually what you're supposed to be. You're already connected to it, but you're not because your mind is now taken over. So the goal was to try to connect that much more stronger, to remove the clouds and connect to that heart. And to do that, I had to try out lots of different things because it was so foggy. Like, because my mind was so much in control. And therefore I did a lot of reading. So I had to go do a lot of discovery and read various bits of spirituality, philosophy, religion, even helped in certain parts. I'm not religious, but there was. They were giving some signposts to try to heal and, you know, connect me more towards that. So that was a big part. And I started doing a lot of yoga meditation. If you'd asked me would I get into yoga at that time, I would have probably, like, you know, if you'd asked me, like, 15 years ago, I would have said no. But that actually worked for me. In fact, what I found is probably doing the uncomfortable things is probably where the answer is. So if you walk into that fear. So for me, I always thought yoga is not for me, but actually, when I tried it, it was really hard at the start. Like, it was brutal. I went on some extensive courses where I honestly, I was in so much pain where I'd go. And I tell people, I say, look, I've just done one day of this course. I can't do it anymore. Like, this is. This is one of the hardest things, but actually, I stayed with it. And I'd say that played quite a big part. And so I've been practicing yoga pretty much, like, nearly every day for the last seven years. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:24:55 - 00:24:56]

    And that made the biggest difference. 


    Jay Radia: [00:24:56 - 00:26:01]

    I'd say that played for me. I think each individual will find what they're right with, is to connect and really just quietening that mind. So, you know, things like walking Always help. But actually just walking in like a nature and with no music and because you have to try to. What people sometimes think is that me being by myself, even there's noise is enough. But actually you have to try to be fully with oneself. So I tried out lots of things. Obviously I do a lot of meditation, breath work. I went on loads of courses, retreats to learn that. So I tried out so many different, different ways to connect and it was actually probably a mix of all of them that helped me and. But then slowly, slowly what then happened was I started connecting more within and then that started giving me the answers to how I should be approaching life and making certain decisions and things like just slowing down became easier. Still hard though if you've got a venture backed company and you got, you know, a board and your whole team's pushing and they've got goals and like you still got. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:26:01 - 00:26:02]

    Yeah. 


    Jay Radia: [00:26:02 - 00:26:06]

    That voice coming. But I try to just quiet and just go from. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:26:06 - 00:26:08]

    Yeah, because now you have the skill, now you have the muscle. 


    Jay Radia: [00:26:08 - 00:26:08]

    Yes. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:26:08 - 00:26:09]

    To do that. 


    Jay Radia: [00:26:09 - 00:26:11]

    Yeah, it's my, it's nearly my default. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:26:11 - 00:26:13]

    To protect your mind from. 


    Jay Radia: [00:26:13 - 00:26:13]

    Yeah. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:26:13 - 00:26:14]

    Noise. 


    Jay Radia: [00:26:14 - 00:26:30]

    Yes, exactly. So I feel. And every morning I'll spend like an hour, two hours just connecting to it so that when I'm approaching the day, hopefully I'm coming more from that place. And yeah, it's just a concert, it's like another workout. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:26:30 - 00:26:45]

    So for you it's about experiencing this emptiness in the best sense of the word and being connected to yourself through that experience of removing the noise. 


    Jay Radia: [00:26:45 - 00:26:46]

    Yes, exactly. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:26:46 - 00:26:49]

    So it's less is more basically. 


    Jay Radia: [00:26:49 - 00:27:29]

    Yeah, less is more and just, just trusting within. So which means you have to sometimes slow down which is sometimes the opposite to a startup. But you know, as you're running a company, as people know, you still need to go fast, you still need to execute fast. But there's. You've got moments of stillness or moments of times when you are connected back in to then to reflect on. Okay, wow. I lost the like I went for it just then. But it's okay. I consciously did that and it's, it's something I'm trying to become better at more and more. Like I'm starting to get slowly be better but obviously you know, it's still, it's still stuff that I'm working on. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:27:30 - 00:27:30]

    It's a process. 


    Jay Radia: [00:27:30 - 00:27:32]

    Yeah, it's a process. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:27:32 - 00:27:40]

    So in terms of any intellectual work like changing your mindset, seeing things from a different angle, did you do any of that? 


    Jay Radia: [00:27:41 - 00:28:16]

    Yeah, obviously a lot of re reading started changing like Did a lot of rewiring for myself because there was definitely a lot of beliefs that I had that, you know, I really believe in that neuroplasticity where you're like, I think. I know we all play with chat GPT now, but I actually think we as humans are also a robot and there's some chat GPT in us and you're sending prompts to ourselves. So I don't see much difference. And so there's certain wirings or beliefs that we have that need to be readjusted. So I definitely had to do a lot of that, and I continue to do that. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:28:17 - 00:28:32]

    Give me some examples of things that changed for you and actually made a difference in your life again from that place where you were empty and no purpose to today. Like what mindset shifts made a difference? 


    Jay Radia: [00:28:34 - 00:29:19]

    I'd say there's a few that come to mind. But I feel like when I'm in situations and my. That voice intuition is speaking and it's guiding me, I will. And if it does prompt or feel something in that situation, I do pause longer or I will. May pause a decision or I might just follow what it said. So before, let's say I'm meeting someone or let's say there's a decision to be made or something doesn't feel right. I don't feel I was trusting that voice enough. So by me slowing down now, that voice does have first say rather than the mind. So I feel like that's been quite a big adjustment. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:29:20 - 00:29:21]

    So you make a conscious decision. 


    Jay Radia: [00:29:22 - 00:29:22]

    Yes. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:29:22 - 00:29:28]

    To listen to that voice and slow down. To give yourself that experience of reconnecting with. With yourself. 


    Jay Radia: [00:29:28 - 00:30:52]

    Yeah, with myself and just with that moment and just to listen in what it's saying because sometimes it's trying to tell you something. The other thing I'd say is probably around like fear. Like before, whenever I felt vulnerable, I felt I was in a place where I felt uncomfortable. I would try to avoid it or I would try to ignore it and then pretend to come back to it later, but I never do. Whereas now I actually enjoy coming back to those moments. And to either feel if I can feel it in the moment, I will. But sometimes it's quite hard. But I gen. I enjoy now those moments because usually that's where the lesson is. So, for example, let's say that I am supposed to. It could be as simple as, like meeting someone where I'm like, bit scared to for some reason, because they might. I might. They might tell me something that might challenge me. Like, this is what happened before or something that. Or, you know, just someone that I was meant to go see a few years ago, but I haven't. But then it's coming back and I think we all had that moment where like, hey, go see this person. Be like, no, I don't, not now. But when that moment comes, now I will. And if it's coming from the heart, I will just go do it. So I'll take action. So I think that's been again and that comes back from listening. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:30:52 - 00:31:14]

    You know, for me it's so exciting because there was a point when I also trained myself to react to fears very differently because I realized it's when we overcome our fear that we get this powerful release of energy which actually must be there with a purpose to help us go where we are scared to go. 


    Jay Radia: [00:31:14 - 00:31:15]

    Exactly. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:31:15 - 00:31:21]

    So I actually train myself to get very excited when I'm scared. And now it, it's working. 


    Jay Radia: [00:31:21 - 00:31:22]

    Yeah, yeah, yeah. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:31:22 - 00:31:27]

    So I love hearing that you also change your relationship with fear. 


    Jay Radia: [00:31:27 - 00:31:48]

    Yeah, it's been, it's very freeing. Right. Because I think before we, and I think we all feel vulnerable and we don't want to sometimes share that side of ourselves. And so I actually have changed the rewiring so that I get excited when that happens. Obviously in the moment I'm a bit scared. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:31:49 - 00:32:37]

    But you know, there is, you know, Carl Jung, the psychologist, the Austrian psychologist, he actually has this idea that when we intentionally overcome an insecurity, then we release energy. It just how things work in our psychology. And I remember reading it for the first time when I was a teenager and that's when I first discovered it because teenagers are so full of insecurities. And I actually did it for a while, like using his ideas. But then of course life got in the way and I forgot all about it. And it was only after I sold the business and had space like you, when I came back to that idea. And now I think it's one of the most life changing things you, you can experience. 


    Jay Radia: [00:32:37 - 00:32:38]

    Yeah. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:32:38 - 00:32:40]

    Changing your relationship with fear. 


    Jay Radia: [00:32:41 - 00:33:11]

    Yeah, no, it's been, I think what Carl Jung said and it's actually, I'd say one of the things that makes me most happiest in life is that evolving of myself and obviously watching others evolve. But like that's a big part of my happiness and I didn't realize that fear can actually make me happy. So it is actually all connected. Well, for me anyway. And I think the more times you go through that process of challenging the fears, it does actually become easier. It's a bit like A muscle. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:33:11 - 00:33:36]

    Yeah, because so many founders think, oh, it's about perseverance. And perseverance is very important, but it's very powerful. If instead of perseverance, you think about the reward that you will get on the other side, you get excited about it, then suddenly you don't need to persevere. You, you get pulled to that idea that there is something amazingly pleasant on the other side. 


    Jay Radia: [00:33:36 - 00:33:37]

    Yeah, 100%. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:33:39 - 00:33:54]

    Okay. So that's great. Anything else that you feel helped you move from the whole idea of finding purpose. It's quite hard. 


    Jay Radia: [00:33:54 - 00:33:54]

    Right. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:33:54 - 00:34:30]

    You said we all pause, we all research, reflect, and then we find it. But my observation is that so many of us don't find it for a decade or more or ever. Would you do you share that observation? Because you know so many exited founders, obviously you work with them in your fund, you run a whole organization for Europe, for exited founders. So you see lots of other people. Like, what's your observation in terms of how successful other people are in finding their purpose post exit? 


    Jay Radia: [00:34:31 - 00:36:12]

    Yeah, I feel once you. I guess, look, I guess I've been fortunate. I've probably now met hundreds of exited founders and each one has got their own journey. And I feel that the ones that probably I believe have done the work is a pause for longer. Right. And they spend more time on that pausing and that recalibration of what is their purpose. And they just sit with the fire, I like to call it, because it's not easy, because you're reflecting back and you acknowledge that stuff that you've probably done wasn't done consciously because you're moving so fast and you're just not self aware. And to then also decode what is my life purpose is a very complex puzzle. It's probably one of the hardest puzzles one has to solve, especially when they're doing it the first time after they've had an exit company. And that puzzle is very complex. It was simple but complex and it's very unique to them. And I think what I find is that people will go read books and go on the Internet and try to figure out what their purpose is. And however it's been written for that person, I feel like each person's purpose is specific to them and they have to spend time trying to decode it. And plus it's layers. So I think for me, when I meet these founders, I can see who's probably done more work by just how they answer the question. Are they conscious? Are they in the moment? So you can normally sense it? 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:36:12 - 00:36:13]

    Yeah. 


    Jay Radia: [00:36:13 - 00:36:37]

    And for me I guess I'm one of those people that likes to sit in the fire. I've always done it, I think, since the age of like 22, 23. I was one of those crazy people that go into Tony Robbins quite early on. And then so I'd sit on a Sunday and just sit there thinking about my purpose, of what my values are. So I've been that person. So I like that work. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:36:37 - 00:36:40]

    Do you think your Indian heritage has something to do with it? 


    Jay Radia: [00:36:41 - 00:36:45]

    I feel maybe, because that's my observation. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:36:45 - 00:36:49]

    That the Indians are dealing much better with existential issues. 


    Jay Radia: [00:36:50 - 00:38:04]

    Interesting. So I was, I guess, born as a Hindu and my parents are both Indian. They weren't religious. My grandma was, and she. She would read, like scriptures. But I, you know, I was aware of it, but I. I didn't really. I wasn't really following the religion. I knew aspects. I celebrate certain days. I knew parts, but I wasn't. I didn't actually study the scriptures. I actually studied the Indian scriptures as well as other scriptures, like in Christianity, studied Kabbalah. I've studied quite a few. And it was only at that point when I was trying to figure out what is my purpose and what's life about, that's when I genuinely was all in and I wanted to figure it out and I started reading it. I feel that with Hinduism, it's around spirituality that's at its core. So it's one. It's. It does allow you to be a free thinker, which has helped. But again, I'm not that into that religion side. But I feel. I don't know if maybe. I don't know, I'm trying to work out did Hinduism or did my upbringing. My upbringing. I don't know. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:38:04 - 00:39:02]

    You know, I've been. I have lots of Indian friends and lots of Indian friends who sold companies. And I've been fascinated by. By this observation that the Indians are doing, but even people who are not religious themselves. And my theory is that it's because so many of us in the west have this fear of spirituality and this idea that spirituality is this weird mysticism. Like there is skepticism towards spirituality, while many Indian people, in my observation, just don't have that skepticism. So even. Even if you're not religious, you may be open enough to go and take religious religions seriously and not just necessarily your family's religion, but as you said, you know, Kabbalah and whatever else you read. Yeah, I think skepticism is a huge problem. 


    Jay Radia: [00:39:03 - 00:39:06]

    And so was I. So, you know, I was the. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:39:06 - 00:39:08]

    So you've overcome. 


    Jay Radia: [00:39:08 - 00:40:24]

    Yeah, definitely. I Didn't really believe in spirituality or just, you know, trusting that there's a higher power or like, I. That wasn't. That wasn't really me. I think for me, I had to go through my own journey, but for me, it's come through feelings. As in, I'm me practicing yoga, me doing meditation, me doing breath work. I think when you. What I found is when I'm in those moments of stillness, I feel something within me. I can feel something beyond me. And that's when things started coming true for me. And I think each person just needs to go on their own journey. And it's, to be honest, like, you know, I've got loads of friends who are atheists. I've got lots of friends who are totally against spirituality. But as long as they feel there's something that really makes them happy in the end or, like, takes them back to, like, a loving place, because that's really what it is. As long as they've got love in them, that's ok. Okay. Spirituality to me helped me to connect me to that kind, loving state, because I think that's what we all hopefully thrive to get to eventually. And spirituality is a. A connection point to that. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:40:24 - 00:40:31]

    Yeah. Because all religions actually have the same message. And the message is, grow out of your selfishness. 


    Jay Radia: [00:40:32 - 00:40:32]

    Yes. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:40:32 - 00:40:35]

    Become bigger. Become less selfish. 


    Jay Radia: [00:40:35 - 00:40:35]

    Yes. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:40:35 - 00:40:57]

    And for me, for example, I only truly understood what purpose is when I understood this message. Because purpose is not about doing what we love. Purpose is actually about committing to contribute at our very best and from the right place, which is love or duty. 


    Jay Radia: [00:40:57 - 00:40:58]

    Yeah. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:40:58 - 00:41:05]

    Right. And if we don't have this intent, if we are not ready for that, we can't have purpose. We can have a job. 


    Jay Radia: [00:41:05 - 00:41:05]

    Yeah. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:41:05 - 00:41:15]

    We can have an occupation. We can be busy. But we can't have the sense of purpose, because having a sense of purpose is actually that reward we get for contributing to the world. 


    Jay Radia: [00:41:16 - 00:41:17]

    Yeah, no, totally. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:41:17 - 00:41:35]

    And even though I agree with you that our paths are very individual, I think the blocks on our paths are actually very typical. And one of them is that spiritual skepticism and also the lack of understanding of what purpose is. We feel intuitively we want to find purpose, but we can't even define it. 


    Jay Radia: [00:41:35 - 00:41:35]

    Yeah. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:41:35 - 00:41:48]

    You know, I ask people on this podcast very often, like, what is purpose for you? And it's. It's incredible that people actually don't know. They say, I am looking for purpose, but I have no idea what it is. 


    Jay Radia: [00:41:48 - 00:42:43]

    Yeah, I think it's. It's interesting you said, I think a lot of the times, because there's just so much in their mind and they've got such a logical mind. They've been, they may be very gifted intellectually or they've been praised as their identity of being very smart. And they feel that anything, because it's like things like spirituality go beyond the mind and you can't. It's not, it's not something you can totally logically process. It's something that you feel or you believe. Right. And that's not logical. So I feel for, you know, successful entrepreneurs or just any entrepreneur because they're so convinced that they're the ones in charge and they're the ones that go from A to B. When I ask certain founders, I go, okay, like, what determines your success? They go, it's me, it's me. And whereas I'm like, there's a lot of things outside of your control as well. But that they, but they're just focused on them being selfishness, Right? 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:42:43 - 00:42:57]

    This me, me, me. And not being able to see that we are part of something bigger, much bigger. We have to, we have to be able. We have to experience that. Like when you meditate, you essentially experience that being part of something bigger. 


    Jay Radia: [00:42:57 - 00:43:14]

    Yeah, definitely. I think it's. I think at the right time, I feel people will find that place. And I think as you go more in that journey, you start realizing how incredible everything really is. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:43:14 - 00:43:24]

    And you stipening, well, maybe, maybe when AI can do more intellectual work for us, we can do more spiritual work. 


    Jay Radia: [00:43:24 - 00:43:27]

    Yeah. Potentially for ourselves. Yeah. When we get to that ASI zone. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:43:27 - 00:43:32]

    The super intelligence, we can delegate all the intellectual work. 


    Jay Radia: [00:43:32 - 00:43:46]

    I am scared because I think it is gonna. I don't think we're far away. And I feel once a few hundred or a few thousand people start putting chips in their head, it's clear that you have to put it in to just fit in. Right. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:43:46 - 00:43:49]

    You see, you can't. If you're scared, you should be excited about it. 


    Jay Radia: [00:43:49 - 00:43:50]

    Yeah, yeah, that's true, that's true. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:43:50 - 00:43:54]

    We flip that. Let's excited about it. Let's maybe think that. 


    Jay Radia: [00:43:54 - 00:43:57]

    Yeah, excited about that. But yeah, you're right. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:43:57 - 00:44:06]

    Let AI have that mental noise. Yeah, yeah, let's them worry about it and we can be in, in this spiritual bliss state. How wonderful. 


    Jay Radia: [00:44:06 - 00:44:11]

    That's a good way. It's a good way. You already passed the other side on the A side, haven't you? I haven't just yet, but it's okay. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:44:11 - 00:44:52]

    I'll get there anyway, so let's go back to more practical questions. So I know that you've tried many things since your definition of exit, and one of them was actually doing a podcast. And your podcast originally was called the Happy Millionaire, Then you renamed it into Joyful Entrepreneur. And for me, it was the most exciting thing ever, because I thought, oh, my God, something very important, very deep changed in Jay's perception of what he's given to the world. And I'd love you to tell me why you renamed your podcast. 


    Jay Radia: [00:44:53 - 00:46:11]

    Sure. So what people don't know is actually there's a name before Happy Millionaire, which was actually the name I wanted. It's actually called the Conscious Entrepreneur, which was the premise around the podcast was to try to give insights to other entrepreneurs on how to be more joyful along that entrepreneurship journey, because it's not the first time you do it. And that was what the focus was. And I did it with one of my friends called Rupee, and he's a good friend of mine. So it was this dialogue that we would have as a conversational, but would bring on guests as well. And, yeah, I was. So, yeah, we basically had a production team, so. So I wanted to make sure the podcast was done the right way. So I built one of. I put together this production team, and we used them as well. And one of the things they said is that your name's not catchy enough. Like, no one's going to get it. Like, because being conscious wasn't that cool three, four years ago. Whereas now it's like everyone's saying, be kind, be loving. But it wasn't. It was quite. We were a bit ahead of our time, and they said, look, you can't call it that. We've been doing some Googling, and we think you should call it Happy Billionaire because that. Because it's somewhat the same thing, and it will get more eyeballs. So I. Naive. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:46:11 - 00:46:12]

    Sounds like a very intellectual decision. 


    Jay Radia: [00:46:14 - 00:46:20]

    Totally. And then I think at that moment, we just said, I just want to get the podcast going. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:46:20 - 00:46:21]

    Yeah. 


    Jay Radia: [00:46:21 - 00:47:47]

    So I said, okay, let's just go with it. Like, we can always change it later. And then the podcast became. Actually. Was very. It was like an overnight success. It got very popular very quickly. Yeah. We're like, in the top 10 in the charts. And I was like, okay, cool. I guess it's called Happy Millionaire now. And it was a. It was a new thing for me. I don't know. My. It was going into the fear. I didn't want to do a podcast, but then I did. I didn't. And then my friend actually just pushed me, said, look, we're gonna do it. And he's like, got one of the top, like, podcasts in the world. So I was like, okay, might as well just. If I'm gonna get do, I'll do with my friend. And yeah, through that journey, as we're doing it more and more, I realized that we weren't probably talking about some of the topics that were where I want to lead the podcast. And at the same time, I realized how much work it needs. It's. I think people underestimate how much work you're probably putting behind the scenes. And for me, whilst running my venture studio, it was a lot of work. So all of these things led me to pause the podcast. And during that pause as well, I renamed it to Joyful Entrepreneur because I said, okay, if I'm going to do it again, I want to make sure it's done with that as its foundation, as the name. I did actually start recording a few episodes with some friends, but then in the end, I just couldn't go around. I don't think I wanted to proceed just now. Some of my great friends were very kind and they recorded some episodes, but I just didn't feel it was the right time. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:47:47 - 00:47:56]

    What did you get out of that experience? Even if you never go back to your podcast, which you may or may not, what do you feel you got out of it? 


    Jay Radia: [00:47:56 - 00:49:17]

    Yeah, I think the podcast definitely allowed me to express myself much better. It's. I feel communication is still probably one of the most beautiful skills that. That we as a human can have. So definitely helped me on that. It allowed me to dive deep into certain topics that were interesting because it's all good. Like, all of us can be one of those keyboard warriors and pretend we know lots about different topics, but when you're on a camera and you're having to talk about it, it has to be very concise and so definitely helped on that side. It definitely opened up doors. Was probably too many doors at some point, as in, there was just a lot of people that wanted to then speak. And for me, timing wasn't right. I don't think I wanted that attention, but it definitely did open up doors. And I guess I was a better listener through all that as well, because you've. You learn how to truly listen. So definitely improved on that side. So I said there was more pros than negatives overall, but timing wasn't right for me. And it was a. It was a hard. It was a tough to say pause, but I feel it was the right decision. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:49:19 - 00:49:58]

    So. So the reason I'm asking is because I see lots of people in the post exit community trying to find their voice through some medium. For some people it's a podcast, others write LinkedIn, Twitter, whatever. I personally think it's amazing because it gives people some kind of structure and discipline around that difficult process of, you know, crystallizing our thoughts and experiences. So I like encouraging people to do that. So I would take a positive step. Spin on your experience. Even though you decided to stop. 


    Jay Radia: [00:49:58 - 00:49:58]

    Yeah. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:49:58 - 00:49:59]

    It was good for you. 


    Jay Radia: [00:49:59 - 00:50:00]

    Yeah. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:50:00 - 00:50:01]

    A good experience. 


    Jay Radia: [00:50:01 - 00:50:17]

    Yeah. Otherwise people can just be guests on, like, podcasts like yourself. I think there's a lot of opportunity on that side so they don't have to host their own podcast. You know, we've chatted about it before as well. Just talking on the camera and sharing your experiences. There's blogging, there's so many other ways. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:50:17 - 00:50:42]

    To share, but it's important because many people feel. Feel lonely. And in a way, even if you are, you don't ne. You don't yet have deep connections with other exited founders because that takes years. I think if you are even talking through your ideas and expressing your deep thoughts and making this existential crisis a bit more open. Yeah, it helps. 


    Jay Radia: [00:50:42 - 00:50:43]

    Definitely. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:50:43 - 00:50:47]

    Those who are depressed usually also the ones who are not talking about what's happening. 


    Jay Radia: [00:50:47 - 00:51:22]

    Definitely. I think your podcast is definitely encouraging that conversation of that post exit, and that's why I think you're doing an incredible job. It's. And you're just so focused on that side, so people are getting to see lots of different experiences. But I think one of the other great things is obviously the PF community, which we're both part of. I know Barak and Shlomo, they maybe listen to this, but yeah, they've obviously done a great job and it's an honour to help the entrepreneurs in Europe now and try to create events and communities. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:51:23 - 00:52:32]

    I think that community really changed so much for the better because I've been in the space for 13 years and I definitely see a huge shift since the community started because they normalized the conversation. The biggest problem I had before was that people would not talk about any kind of issues after a successful exit because they would say, oh, the world will just hate me for complaining or even raising an issue because I'm supposed to be so happy and so wealthy. But I think the PEF normalized it. I'm trying to do it with this podcast as well, because so many people tell me, oh, I can't talk about it. And then I can tell them, listen, all these people came to the Podcast, they talked and I never get negative, nasty feedback because I think people who are not interested, they will not even come and listen to a podcast like this. But those who are interested, maybe founders who are about to sell, they will be very respectful to these issues. They would be genuinely interested or other exited founders would be able to relate. 


    Jay Radia: [00:52:32 - 00:52:33]

    Definitely. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:52:33 - 00:52:59]

    Because my, my ultimate dream is that the society generally accepts the fact that even when we are very successful in a traditional, traditional definition like financially successful, it doesn't mean that we are happy. Because once the society understands that, I hope other people will stop chasing, using money as fanatically. 


    Jay Radia: [00:52:59 - 00:52:59]

    Yeah, right. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:52:59 - 00:53:03]

    There may be all these interesting implications to. 


    Jay Radia: [00:53:03 - 00:53:04]

    Yeah. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:53:04 - 00:53:04]

    To that. 


    Jay Radia: [00:53:04 - 00:53:21]

    I think it, then it, you know, boils down to the question of like, what do you define a success or purpose? Right. And I feel the great thing is on this podcast, people are articulating their new belief of what. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:53:21 - 00:53:22]

    Let's talk about you though. 


    Jay Radia: [00:53:22 - 00:53:22]

    Okay. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:53:22 - 00:53:23]

    I want to. 


    Jay Radia: [00:53:23 - 00:53:24]

    What's my new belief? 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:53:24 - 00:53:30]

    How your definition of success changed over time. Like what used to be, what is it now and why? 


    Jay Radia: [00:53:30 - 00:57:06]

    Yeah, I think, you know, the honest truth was, I think before it was probably some of the material aspects, right? Like chasing the success of a company, the financials, how other people would view me. I think that was, you know, when I was younger. It probably comes back to my childhood. Like my, my parents were both refugees that came to this country or nothing. And so it's probably parts of that. And then through the wiring and re. Changing, obviously that has now changed. And for me, I try to, I have like five areas which try to encompass like my whole life, right. So my one is like connecting with my heart or connecting with the light. So that's like my first part of my purpose. So that's me being still, me being. Having a calm mind, just being relaxed. So like that is what is my number one and that needs to happen. Then second one is obviously my health. So it's like one of being sure I have a fit, healthy body. So that means going to the gym, do my walks, eating healthy. So that is something that is, that, that is my purpose, but also makes me happy. So before I dive into the others, it's just, I think when I say purpose, it's just like what makes me happy. And, and I've had a lot of retrospective and just try to point on what these are. And then the third one is like being loving. So this is like my relationships. This is relationships with my partner, to my friends, family, to my founders, to my colleagues. So this is like it's just me making sure I'm in a kind loving place with those. So that's really important. The fourth one is. Okay now I've gone blank now so you might have to edit this. What was the fourth one? Now I've gone a bit blank. The fourth one is around play. So whatever I do has to be, I need to enjoy it. So it has to be a play. So I guess I'm very fortunate now after the exit where I can decide what I enjoy doing. So that fourth one is play. So that means like my work, I do the work that I enjoy and I focus on that. You know, I'm spending time going on holidays, trips with all my loved ones. That's what I consider play. So I try to make my calendar to be as much around playing and being in that flow state people like to call it, but just trying to play as much. So I try to work out what, what is play. And I reflect. And the fifth one is about evolving and that's me learning and growing. And you know what we talked about like going, reflecting. Okay, what am I scared of? Where am I, where do I need to do the work? And I really enjoy that piece and that's obviously me doing my reading, me meeting interesting people but I also track that as well. So those are like my five lanes and that is what currently makes me happy. And I usually know if I'm feeling a bit off and I ask myself okay, am I connecting to my heart? Am I, is my body mind a fit healthy spot? Am I got some loving relationships? Am I learning or growing? And am I playing if I if if normally one is off. So that's my quick check. And yeah, I try to live my life around those. If you'd spoken to me about a year ago, it may have been a bit different but generally like I'm starting, it's starting to be a bit more consistent. So that's how I define like my purpose which makes me like one really what makes me happy. Those five things are in place. There'll be times when one is off, maybe twos are off, but the more they're okay then I will be happy. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:57:06 - 00:57:10]

    So you've enter studio. How does it fit into those five? 


    Jay Radia: [00:57:10 - 00:57:53]

    Yeah, so what people don't know is the name. My venture studio actually came when I was connected to my heart. So it's called Bliss Growth. And the reasoning behind it is that I wanted to create fast growing companies. That's something I enjoy. For me that's play when they're just growing to their Full potential. But. But I want to do it in a very centered place where it'd be joyful. And then suddenly I remember I was just sitting there on the sofa or a chair like this. And this word, two words just came out. Bliss. Growth. It just came. Just came from within. I was like, that sounds really good. And then I went, beautiful. Then I went on to the. On GoDaddy. GoDaddy's not sponsoring this. But yeah. So they. I typed it in and the domain was available and I was like, oh. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:57:53 - 00:57:54]

    Wow, that's meant to be. 


    Jay Radia: [00:57:54 - 00:59:01]

    Yeah, it's meant to be. And then. So that came from that connected place. And I've created a life where, you know, I'm not working 24 7. Yes. I'm working hard, but, you know, I can spend time on my body making sure it's fit and healthy. And in terms of the being loving, like, I'm. I'm deciding which founders we work with and my team as well. So I made sure that the environment is a. An environment that I'm excited about. So that one's tick. And then playing. I'm doing the work I love, which is starting companies from 0 to 1. Like, it is truly play for me. I. I love it. This is a really. I remember someone said this, but the way to determine if you're doing the right company or the right work is if someone dangled. This is crazy, but someone dangled like a billion dollars in front of your face and said, I'm going to take this, your company, away from you right now and you can never, ever do anything like it ever again, what would your answer be? And I'm being honest. If someone did that to me with Bliss Grove and said, hey, you're never allowed to venture studio ever again, and I'm taking it away from you, you have to figure something else out. Like, I wouldn't sell. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:59:02 - 00:59:02]

    Yeah. 


    Jay Radia: [00:59:02 - 00:59:03]

    Like, it's like no matter what you. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:59:03 - 00:59:13]

    Give to me, I actually believe you because you've. You've been tested by. By this. Like you had this experience of getting money in exchange of losing your business. 


    Jay Radia: [00:59:13 - 00:59:13]

    Yeah. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:59:13 - 00:59:15]

    So I believe that. 


    Jay Radia: [00:59:15 - 00:59:16]

    Yeah. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:59:16 - 00:59:17]

    You actually mean it. 


    Jay Radia: [00:59:17 - 00:59:45]

    So that is. Yeah. And I, I just love what I do. So it is proper play and then the learning and evolving this just on. On a bench studio. There's. The lessons are endless. Like, you're meeting so many different personalities. Your. You're having to build like a platform. You're meeting so many investors to, you know, family offices, which are all unique and different. So there's just an endless Number of lessons to learn. So. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:59:45 - 00:59:47]

    So you've just, you've just offered us such a beautiful framework. 


    Jay Radia: [00:59:48 - 00:59:48]

    Yeah. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:59:48 - 00:59:50]

    For somebody to consider. 


    Jay Radia: [00:59:50 - 00:59:53]

    It's a framework that works for me. I don't, you know, I want to, but it might work. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [00:59:53 - 01:00:03]

    That that's all we need. What works for you? Because that's relevant. That's not just abstract thinking. It's your experience of going from a bad place to a good place. 


    Jay Radia: [01:00:03 - 01:00:14]

    Yeah, definitely. And it's something that whenever I do that exercise, it just. I don't know, I always just feel the dopamine. I feel good because it feels right. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [01:00:16 - 01:00:51]

    Okay, so how do you think about this venture studio? It sounds like it's something that you're committing to long term. There is a reason I'm asking. There is this popular belief out there that we should build companies with the idea to sell and plan for the exit from the beginning. And I know you've given it quite a lot of thought and I would love you to share this whole idea of should we build to exit or should we build to for other reasons. Yeah, let's leave it at that. 


    Jay Radia: [01:00:51 - 01:03:02]

    Yeah. I feel it's an interesting topic and for me, I really believe in life and it goes back to my five principles. But even you'll see it cross bizgraph is that everyone has reached their full potential. For me, that is what why we're here. Like, we have to push it to reach the other side. And I start these companies off with the founder with the premise that they are taking it all the way, whatever that means to them. Some founders we meet, they want to exit soon, some want to exit later. We generally do not. We generally like to go all the way now as part of. As an investment thesis though. And like me creating these businesses, sometimes we will sell at later stages. Like we'll sell equity now. But the founder, we want them to be committed to go all the way, wherever that looks like. And ideally that is, you know, getting to a very big scale or just keep on running it endlessly. In the UK and in Europe, you probably get less. There's definitely a lot of founders who want to go more bootstrapped now and want to, you know, build to sell. I don't really enjoy working with those founders as much because I know they're not thinking about their full potential, they're thinking about the exit. So for Blissgrove, we try to build companies that will go as far as they can. Now, some will sell and some will reach. But the truth is, but with software companies, most likely you can Build a company to last and go all the way. But it's very likely that an acquisition will take place. It just is. It's just likely. And not all companies are going to ipo. You'll know, the market will tell you. Obviously you build it so that you can be, you can go all the way. And you may go, you know, do an ipo, don't even ipo, but you're going as far as you can. And it might be hundreds and hundreds of millions of revenue, but you know, data shows that most likely you are going to be acquired if it's a good business. So you know, we go in the purpose of going all the way. But I'm, I trust the process. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [01:03:02 - 01:03:07]

    But what about you? Are you committed to Bliss growth all the way? 


    Jay Radia: [01:03:07 - 01:03:11]

    Yeah, there is nothing, there is nothing else I want to do. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [01:03:11 - 01:03:14]

    You're. No. You're not planning for an exit for yourself? 


    Jay Radia: [01:03:14 - 01:03:29]

    No. What. Yeah, my companies would exit. I don't think I'd ever. Maybe someone wants to acquire Bliss growth, but I don't, you know, I wouldn't as I said, even if they offered me whatever money, I wouldn't do it because it's literally you're taking away My, my PlayStation, my play. Right. You can't, that's not going to happen. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [01:03:29 - 01:03:51]

    So you only invest in repeat founders and there are obvious explanations for it. You know, they have the business, they have the experience, they, they've proved their ability to create value and take company all the way to an exit. Are there any other reasons that may not be as obvious why you prefer to work with these people? 


    Jay Radia: [01:03:52 - 01:05:19]

    I think for me I want to focus on helping them solve the hard things. If it's a first time founder, you're gonna have to most likely guide them through the hoops which are, you know, things like hiring your first salesperson, hiring your first finance person, you know, hey, I've got a term sheet, there's some preferences. What does that mean? And I don't, and for me, I don't feel I'm being challenged or I'm gonna enjoy that part as much so. And because I've now built multiple companies, I can really, I feel like they relate to me and I relate to them. There is just a connection. And, and as I, and as I've been meeting more because before I did invest in first time founders, I did work with them and then I also did ex, like repeat or experience founders and I just enjoyed like through tests that I wanted to just dedicate my life to work with them and hopefully help Them reach their full potential. So. And I used to hold loads of community events. Even before I was running pf, I used to hold community events for exited founders in London. And it was just something I really, really enjoyed. And exactly like you, I love understanding the psychology post exit. I love having the conversations. So yeah, I was just fascinated and now to get to work with them is just. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [01:05:19 - 01:07:07]

    You know, when I was very fresh out of my first exit, I thought I had this genius idea that I gonna angel invest. But I'll only angel invest in repeat founders and my thinking wasn't nearly as deep as yours. I simply thought, oh, the likelihood of success is higher there. And at that time I had no idea about how the whole post exit journey actually plays out. Most of my investments didn't go well and part of the reason is that I didn't do my due diligence properly or whatever. I, I was investing for wrong reasons. I was really just trying to become somebody again, you know, to solve my identity crisis. But another reason they failed, which I only started understanding much less later, is that when you invest in second time founders, there are very unique risks that come with them that you actually don't have with first time founders. And those have to do, for example with things like they rush into this second business before they've done the work we talked about before, just sitting with themselves, figuring out what it is they actually want. And then people tend to run out of the motivation and they don't, they no longer have that resilience to push through problems because the motivation is not there, things like that. And for a while I actually stopped doing it and I went to the opposite extreme and I was like, I'm not investing in any repeat founders because their problems are even worse than the first time founders did. You have that then experience that there are psychological issues with repeat founders that need to be taken into account. 


    Jay Radia: [01:07:07 - 01:08:52]

    Yeah, I think it's an interesting one. I meet a lot of founders who want to build their second company in a total different sector or space because they're really excited. And what I always say to them is that if they did have a successful exit in one sector, they obviously know something about that customer that they sold to. And if they can actually selling again to them is probably better because you have an edge, an advantage. Whereas you know, even with me, I built this company with a team called Screen Loop and this was about solving unconscious bias in hiring because I, you know, it was for the good like, you know, this would remove all bias in interviews and it, and it Does. It's brilliant. But, you know, as I was building, am I building the product? And as we built, as the company's being built, I realized quite quickly that it's just another capitalist business. Like, like or not, it's run, it's got the same metrics, it needs funding, it's the same. Yes. On that shell, it's great and it's purposeful and it's impactful, it's brilliant. But on the inside it's still, yes, you're caring about society, but it's still run like a business. And I feel sometimes I'd meet a lot of founders who have sometimes going into sectors where they're trying to be more impactful, but then they realize it's harder to make money in this sector or because it's harder to maybe sell to the customer. But at the same time they're realizing, hey, there's no difference between what I was doing before and they don't have that expertise because it's a new ecosystem. And then they, and then they're fighters. They'll carry on because they want to protect their ego. Some just go at, you know what? This ain't working. I'm over. Whereas. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [01:08:52 - 01:10:25]

    Exactly. That's more my experience with those I invested in. And then later I talked to them years later and they were like, oh, that was so stupid of me to go into a different industry. Now I'm back to what I know and now my business is successful. And I was like, thanks very much. I was the idiot who invested in the experiment early on. And another interesting observation I made through this not very successful financial investments of mine was that sometimes people actually wait for too long to start a new business. And then there's a different problem that as an investor, I'm thinking that they're the same people who built the first company. But. But what happened is that they've moved on and they now care much more about having a relaxed lifestyle or focusing on their children. And they started this new business thinking, oh, it's going to be easier second time around because now I can just delegate everything, but it's an illusion. You can't. If I learned anything from my experience and the experience of many other people, it's not easier. Second, it's not. Unless there are some exceptions. Like, for example, an older, more experienced founder is very lucky with a co founder who is very young and wants to do all the work. That's an exception. But in most cases, you have to work just as hard second time around and they don't want to and then they're like, ah, I can't be bothered. 


    Jay Radia: [01:10:25 - 01:10:53]

    Yeah, no, for sure. I've seen that story play out and I think you're a lot wiser on the decision making. You can hire better people, you've got better processes, but it's still an incredible amount of work. And you know, the tech, the tech sector is very interesting because you could be very smart with your capital and build the right products and next thing you know you've got this company in the US has raised 100 million. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [01:10:53 - 01:10:53]

    Exactly. 


    Jay Radia: [01:10:53 - 01:10:56]

    And the next thing you know they're undercutting you and that's just. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [01:10:56 - 01:10:57]

    And you're out of business. 


    Jay Radia: [01:10:57 - 01:11:28]

    Yeah, yeah. So it's, I think it's interesting. I meet a lot of people that want to build bootstrap businesses or build it more capital efficient. But the sad truth is I've seen it. What plays out, there'll be another company that comes in and unfortunately cash is a big lever in a lot of sectors. And yeah, the second time founders, sometimes that hunger to like fight in that ring just they've, hey, look, I've already won the title. I don't, I really want to carry on being in the ring. They don't want to sometimes. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [01:11:28 - 01:12:14]

    But then what's interesting is that maybe a few years later they've gone through their journey, they found their purpose, something that feels right, like what you described with Blissgrowth and then they're ready. I think timing of investing in repeat founders is extremely important. Not to invest when they're just out of the previous company, but not to wait for too long. I know you're very, very sensitive to this thing, things and I'm curious if you have any rules for yourself in terms of what you want to see, where you want to see your second time founders in their own personal journeys, when you will would feel comfortable investing in them. 


    Jay Radia: [01:12:14 - 01:14:40]

    I think now and it goes back to probably early in the podcast, like I'm just a lot more patient and I trust the process. So sometimes I'll be with a founder who's exceptional right. Where people just throw money at this person like without anything. And I still have that in my mind. I'm like, hey, look, oh my God, this person's incredible. But I'm just, I really want to know how they're thinking and I will ask them a lot of deep questions and I'll see if they've done the work because at the end, like I'm not. I think my job in this life is to guide people to the right decision, whether it Is working with Bliss growth or not? I'm okay. Like, I know, you know, I'll meet 30 founders every month and probably only one in 50 are supposed to work with me. And I'm okay with that. But as long as the other 49, I feel I've listened to them and told them and been honest that, hey, look, you need to go work on this area still, like it's not, you haven't done the work. And I, and I, you know, you can speak to some of the founders that may know me, but I always say, look, I'm very honest. I'm okay having the hard conversations with them because in the end I want them to hopefully be on that right path. So going back to your question, I really will ask them deep questions and not only I'm asking them deep questions on them, them and their purpose and if they've done the work, but also on the idea as well. So is probably, it probably can be quite exhausting with me because I'm basically challenging them on the idea deeply and I'm trying to charge up deeply on the work. And so it's just, But I'm doing this because I'm trying to assess where they're at and yeah, I'll meet them multiple times as well. Like, I'm not, I'm in no rush to build companies. I've told my investors, like, you know, we'll build three companies a year but sometimes it might be more, it might be less. I can't, I'm not under any time pressure and I don't have any institution money. It's all like family offices, high net worth enough. And I've been honest that hey, look, I'm, this is about patience. So for me, for me, I, yeah, I'm just very careful because once I start building coming, I know this is a new relationship for life that I'm about to. Not for life, but it's going to be a lot. It could be for life or it's going to be at least 5, 10 of serious time. So I'm very careful. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [01:14:42 - 01:15:00]

    So we talked about you being more loving and we talked about how much you care about founders you invest in. But how do you think about the closest circle around you? Like, whom do you want to surround yourself with and what's your logic behind it? 


    Jay Radia: [01:15:00 - 01:15:28]

    Yeah, I'd say my circle is definitely over time, like everyone gets smaller and smaller and then eventually the right people come and like my closest people are my like, like my brother and my business partners. And I've got quite a Lot of cousins. I've got like 40 cousins, which is nuts, right? Indian families are really big, so there's like, a few of my cousins. I'm like, you said small circle. Yeah, yeah, I know. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [01:15:28 - 01:15:29]

    Indian standards. 


    Jay Radia: [01:15:29 - 01:16:20]

    Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I'm very lucky. I've got a lot of love around me, and so I hold that circle very tightly. And, you know, I really appreciate people that are just very kind, loving. They've done the work in their life, they're conscious. And, you know, I really feel that the right people come at the right time, and I just. Just trust the process. Before, I think we all want to have certain people we think in our life, but I just. I'm starting to let go and just let it all happen. So I don't. Before, I used to think, okay, I want to build my friendships like this or my circle like this, and I want this layer and that layer. But I'm just like. I just let it be and just enjoy that process. Just let it happen. Just watch the movie take place. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [01:16:20 - 01:16:37]

    I know you talk to exited founders all the time. You know, hundreds of people who sold their company. If I came to you today and I said, you know what? I sold my business yesterday, what are the things I need to be aware of to go through the transition? 


    Jay Radia: [01:16:37 - 01:17:50]

    Well, yeah, I'd probably say first thing is just spend time connecting with yourself. And you may spend. Even if you're in a later stage, just there's always more time. I've read, like, one of the advice and wisdom tips I was given by someone was that, you know, the bigger the goal, the more time you to spend with yourself, because that intuition and that voice will be needed even more. So I'd say spend as much time in that stillness. Find that activity, or maybe just sitting on a couch, but just without any distraction. Just make sure you have that time. And then I'd probably say actually be part of a community. I think having the right people around you like having those friends. And obviously the PF communities are a great place that lots of friendships will get formed and insights. So, yeah, that community is really important, and there's so many, obviously your podcast as well. So I just feel being part of a group of people that are in the same place as you is so important. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [01:17:50 - 01:17:52]

    Not doing it alone. 


    Jay Radia: [01:17:52 - 01:17:53]

    Exactly. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [01:17:54 - 01:18:15]

    I completely agree with you. Those stories that sometimes are horrific that I hear some people share them in their studio all the time as people did not have the right support with the family, with friends, with other exited founders, for whatever reason, they were alone in this journey, and then it doesn't go very well. 


    Jay Radia: [01:18:15 - 01:18:16]

    Yeah. It's. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [01:18:16 - 01:18:24]

    So we. We have. We have common friends who, you know, went through a divorce at the same time, for example. That's. That's when you are very lonely suddenly. 


    Jay Radia: [01:18:24 - 01:18:24]

    Yeah. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [01:18:24 - 01:18:27]

    And then you have an exit experience. That stuff. 


    Jay Radia: [01:18:27 - 01:18:49]

    Yeah. If it's a very. I think after an exit, like. And when you're doing this work, like, you do go. And I said, you're sitting in the fire. It's a dot. And I've tried to make it sound probably nice, but it's. It's a dark place because you really realize that there is a lot of, you know, there's a lot of work that needs to be done. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [01:18:49 - 01:18:49]

    Yeah. 


    Jay Radia: [01:18:49 - 01:19:06]

    And we all know, like, the reason why I believe we're on this planet is to do that work. So I think we have to. Again, going back to the point of evolving, like, we have to do this work. I know it's not fun, but, like, we have to do this work. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [01:19:06 - 01:19:19]

    Yeah. We also need new skills for a new challenge. So, for example, when you talked about, you know, meditation or yoga or those skills, we need to be connected to our deeper self. 


    Jay Radia: [01:19:19 - 01:19:20]

    Yeah. It's also a skill. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [01:19:20 - 01:19:24]

    There are lots of practical skills that we actually need to have, like managing wealth. 


    Jay Radia: [01:19:24 - 01:19:44]

    Yeah. Like, you know, my. My journey of meditation, yoga, all of these was, like, really difficult at the start. Like, I didn't want to do it, of course. It was so hard. But I think enough people had said, there's something on the other side. There's something on the other side of the rainbow. The skittles were there. Well. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [01:19:44 - 01:20:02]

    But also, you knew that they were not on this side. You know, you. When you achieve. When you achieve what you thought was the dream of everyone, you realize that it's not true. It doesn't make us happy. You have to cross something. You have to cross a barrier that most people don't cross. 


    Jay Radia: [01:20:02 - 01:20:03]

    Yeah, no, definitely. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [01:20:04 - 01:20:06]

    For sure. Jay, thank you so much. 


    Jay Radia: [01:20:06 - 01:20:08]

    Awesome. Thank you so much. Really enjoyed it. 


    Anastasia Koroleva: [01:20:08 - 01:20:12]

    Oh, I loved it, too. Thank you. Always with you. All conversations are fantastic. 


    Jay Radia: [01:20:12 - 01:20:13]

    I appreciate it. Thank you.



 
Anastasia Koroleva
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