Brett Gelfand. My father sold his business and now I sold mine: Lessons from 2 generations
Episode - 12
Brett Gelfand. My father sold his business and now I sold mine: Lessons from 2 generations
Brett Gelfand. A second-generation exited founder, he has successfully built and sold a company, just like his dad. Now, they're in business together. In this episode, Brett shares with us insights from both his and his father's post-exit experiences, the keys to successful business partnerships, finding love, and thriving as a digital nomad.
What We Discussed:
00:01:01: Brett's Business Ventures
00:01:22: Brett's Focus on the Cannabis Industry
00:02:40: Brett's Experience as CEO at a Young Age
00:04:19: Change in motivation after business exit
00:05:55: Shift Towards Teaching and Sharing Knowledge
00:06:11: Reflection on Pre-Exit Driven Fear
00:08:04: Beginning of Brett's Mastermind Group Idea
00:08:49: Experience Post Business Sale
00:10:51: Decision to Sell Packaging Business
00:11:19: Feeling After Selling the Business
00:16:34: Father's Influence and Partnership
00:18:38: Working with Father as a Business Partner
00:19:10: Expanding Business with His Father
00:27:04: Exiting a business partnership and achieving financial freedom
00:29:10: Reflecting on the entrepreneurial journey
00:31:35: Lessons learned from starting, building, and selling a business
00:35:21: Living and working abroad - A personal experience
00:39:16: Exploring the freedom of digital nomad lifestyle
00:41:18: Adapting to a new culture and language
00:43:35: The Role of Therapy in Personal Life
00:46:10: Evaluating Relationships
00:49:21: The Importance of Being Present
00:52:01: Basic Needs and Complications in Life
00:57:45: The Essence of Being a Good Human and a Family Person
00:59:01: Lessons from Father and Passing Legacy
01:02:21: From Being a Parent to a Mentor
01:03:01: Living Life Before Parenthood
01:03:41: Reflecting on personal values and success
01:06:08: Defining personal freedom
01:07:37: Pursuit of Growth
01:08:22: Venturing into other opportunities
01:09:43: Discussion on investment philosophy
01:11:39: Wrap-Up & Closing Remarks
-
Brett Gelfand: [00:00:00 - 00:00:05]
The definition of success for me is my kids considering me their best friend when they're adults.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:00:05 - 00:00:25]
Brett Gelfand, a second generation exited founder. He has successfully built and sold a company just like his dad. Now they're in business together. Brett shares with us insights from both his and his father's post exit experiences. The keys to successful business partnerships. Finding love and thriving as a digital moment.
Brett Gelfand: [00:00:25 - 00:00:48]
Take the money and run. Sometimes so many people are looking for their next investment or their next get rich quick scheme to make an extra 10-20 percent a year. Just move to Buenos Aires or move to Colombia and make us dollars and spend pesos, and your money is going to go three x, four x. We can go back and forth and go at it where someone listening might be like, oh, my God, these guys must hate each other.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:00:55 - 00:00:58]
Hi, Brett. Thank you so much for joining me today on this podcast.
Brett Gelfand: [00:00:58 - 00:01:01]
No, thank you so much for having me. I'm pretty excited to be here.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:01:01 - 00:01:22]
You started two businesses pretty much at the same time about seven years ago. Then about two years ago, you sold one of them because you wanted to focus on the other one. And then about a year ago, you started an association for the industry. So all these businesses had very different markets, very different business models. They had only one thing in common as far as I'm concerned, which is the industry.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:01:22 - 00:01:35]
It's the cannabis industry. So what is it about the industry, and what is it you're trying to achieve in that particular industry that makes you focus on it and channel all your energy into it, even after you sell your company?
Brett Gelfand: [00:01:35 - 00:02:40]
Really, it comes down to where I got my base of experience, especially, like, right out of college. I was hired to be the executive assistant to a new cannabis company outside of Aspen, Colorado. So I had a finance degree from University of Georgia, was going to go financial consulting. Very corporate, and my heart and blood has been always entrepreneurial. And the last thing I wanted was to work a nine to five job, so I decided to take the position in Colorado. I helped raise $20 million for this new company, completely vertically integrated cannabis company. I didn't smoke a lot of marijuana myself. Yeah, I was one of the friends in my friend group that I was like, wait, Brett, you're going out to Colorado to sell weed? And I've been around it my whole life, but it's never been really my recreation of choice. However, I see the benefits it has for so many people, and I love the business opportunity right out of college.
Brett Gelfand: [00:02:40 - 00:04:01]
So, long story short, I helped build this cannabis company. My boss, who was the CEO of the time got sick, he had to leave the state of Colorado. So after only about six to nine months, the board, who I became very close with, the investment partners, promoted me to CEO at the age of 24. And I was essentially managing 60 people. And all this to say, I got to learn the ins and outs of cannabis in the year of 2015, one of the first recreational state in the world, really, of selling recreational marijuana. And because of that, I was able to find unique niche businesses and solve problems for the industry that I saw coming to other states and on a national level. And that's where I ended up starting my own businesses. And through that evolution, I still am really eager and motivated and passionate about trying to solve these problems, really, because it's what I know and it's the space that I played in for the last eight, nine years. So for me, that's been the reason why I'm still doing this in cannabis. I feel like I have the experience and the skill set, the clientele, the network. I think a lot of reasons why other people stay in their line of work. But it's nice now because I'm starting to open up and see maybe if I could take those skills into other markets and industries as well.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:04:01 - 00:04:03]
Okay, so you are considering other industries.
Brett Gelfand: [00:04:03 - 00:04:19]
Yes. I'm now looking at in the next 5-10 year horizon, how I could play a role as a business leader, entrepreneur, investor in other markets and other things that I believe in, rather than just the cannabis space.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:04:19 - 00:04:34]
So that brings us to your motivation. Can you tell me how your motivation changed between the time you first started your businesses and again you started two at once, and now, two years after you sold the first business, what's driving you now?
Brett Gelfand: [00:04:34 - 00:05:55]
A lot has changed pre and post exit, in a sense that before, for me, my idea of success was building and selling a business. It didn't really even matter what it was for me. Since I was a kid, I define success as if I can build my own business, generate my own income, and not have to work for anybody else. And ultra success would be having some sort of exit where it really shows that I was able to build something and there's value that someone else wanted to capture from it. That has changed now, where I think as life is an evolution, now that I've hit that milestone, for me, I'm starting to get a little bit more internal and think about what's really going to serve the planet and what's really going to serve the world around me. More than just myself, I'm still in this process of figuring out where that can go. But I think what lights me up more than anything is when I get a call from a new founder, a new entrepreneur that's asking me how I did it or how I can help them or what advice I have. That for me, is extremely motivating, and I see myself maybe taking steps in that path in the future as I continue to get more experience, becoming a better leader, and learning more things every day with my own companies.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:05:55 - 00:06:11]
So you're thinking that eventually you will focus more on teaching and sharing. One day, if you're not quite there yet, you still feel that you want to actually get your hands dirty and keep building a business. Is that correct?
Brett Gelfand: [00:06:11 - 00:07:34]
Yes. And because I have a little bit more freedom of mindset, and it kind of goes back to your previous question of before. When I was building my first business, it was really more built on fear or anxiety of, like, I need to get this done. I need to have enough money. I don't want to lose. I can't afford to lose. I put so much in this, and if I lose, what am I going to do? Go work for another company or be an employee again? So for me, it was really fear driven. And now, because I have a little bit more financial security, it's way more about what resonates more with myself and what do I want to spend my time doing, and how can I allocate my time in the way that I choose to do so? And with that said, I have made some small investments in different companies. I don't want to become a venture capitalist at all, but it's more about how can I support other entrepreneurs with either my sweat or with some money behind me. And that, to me, just is really fun. That's a fun thing that I like to do. So as I'm building these companies, I am always looking at, is there a way for me to mentor, be an advisor, make small investments here and there? Because it's just something that I really like to do and kind of gives me some space from my day to day with my current businesses.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:07:34 - 00:07:36]
So you do some angel investing here and there?
Brett Gelfand: [00:07:36 - 00:08:04]
A couple. And I also started, like, a small mastermind group with some friends and family that it was completely unpaid and just a fun way every month to bring people together and talk about how can I help someone, maybe escape the rat race that they have a side project or an idea that they want to get into. Everyone was asking me, Brett, how do I start? What do I do? And I thought, oh, let's bring everyone in a room together and pitch each other's ideas and kind of know some structure to helping people get off the ground.
Brett Gelfand: [00:08:04 - 00:08:20]
So that, for me, was one of my favorite times every month, bringing people together and having that. It's not a formal mastermind, or, I haven't really started anything down that path, but it was kind of testing the idea of where I could go in the upcoming years after my exit.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:08:20 - 00:08:49]
Most people I interview, they would have a business that they would focus on just that business for ten years, sometimes 20 years, and then they sell it, and then they deal with issues like loneliness and loss of structure. For me, it was very interesting to hear, or would be very interesting to hear how it affected you because you had another business already existing at the time. Was it a good idea for you to already have that, to have that structure and to have that social support?
Brett Gelfand: [00:08:49 - 00:10:51]
Yeah, I was very fortunate the way that things panned out, because I started this whole process after making a tough decision of leaving Colorado, leaving the position of CEO at a young age. I had 60 plus employees working for me at the time, and it was in a brand new space right where I was thinking, okay, I'm going to about to leave this and then go live in my mom's basement and start my own company from scratch. And because that was a decision that I made in tandem to, that was, okay, what can I do immediately to help bring in cash flow? Because the other business, the main business that I was working on was a packaging company, and that involves tooling in China, long lead times. I was talking like a six to twelve month process to even maybe potentially get our first sale. So I was thinking, what can I do now in order to supplement my income before that company even has legs to start making sales. And that's where the whole development of my collection agency that I'm currently running came from, where I was like, okay, I can do this also on the side, because there's downtime with the packaging business and see if I can get some clients in the meantime. And it was always kind of something that we'll see what happens with it. While I was focusing on the packaging business, and because thankfully, both the companies did well and I was able to juggle both of them, it really helped me make that decision in not an emotional sense. I mean, things became very emotional with my partnership that I had to get a divorce from. And the business itself kind of became difficult when it came to selling my main packaging business due to other factors. But a main driver was, logically speaking, okay, here's the market for the packaging business today. In the next couple of years. Here's the market for the collection and credit business in the next couple of years, what's going to be a better outcome for me, and what do I enjoy doing more? And those decisions were pretty easy for me to make.
Brett Gelfand: [00:10:51 - 00:11:19]
So I was able to make that decision to sell the packaging business and try to get out of that company knowing that I had another business to focus in. If I didn't have that other company, it definitely would have been much more difficult to make that decision because it would have been starting from zero. And I can imagine that a lot of people might say, well, what am I going to do with my life? Where am I going to go from here? And I kind of already had that planned out, which I'm thankful that I had set up before the exit.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:11:19 - 00:11:27]
Let's go back to that moment when you just sold pack case. How did it feel?
Brett Gelfand: [00:11:27 - 00:13:31]
The day that I sold? It felt great. It was just a huge relief. And unfortunately, it wasn't how I would have planned it. It wasn't the exit that I expected. It wasn't what I dreamed of when I started it, especially as I was in a partnership, like an equal partnership on the business. We had these dreams of how we were going to sell the company together and what the outcome was going to look like. And because it turned out differently, where I wanted to sell, he didn't want to sell. We had to figure out a buyout between the two of us, and it kind of felt more like, poof, I'm out. Kind of like, thank God I dodged a bullet versus I won a gold medal at the Olympics. It was a different feeling, however, a tremendous feeling, nevertheless. Kind of like, if you almost get run over by a car and you dodge it, and you're like, oh, incredible. Right? So that's kind of how I felt. And from that point on, I felt this level of creativity that I haven't felt in a long time for, like, a couple of months after. First of all, I took time to travel, and I didn't dive right into my other business right away. I kind of said, I'm going to take a couple of months and just enjoy this and just do my thing and have fun. And I was just thinking outside the box of all these different business ideas that I could put my time into and thinking about, do I want to dedicate 100% of my time to my collection agency, or do I want to split things up or delegate? And it just gave me that freedom to really think and be creative, which I think a lot of the time entrepreneurs and founders and CEOs lose because of the days full of calendars, meetings, and things like that. So it was a beautiful moment, to be honest. I think I went to a concert that night. I think it was Coldplay in Mexico City. So I went to a coldplay concert, Mexico City, and it was just like. It was like, what could be better than this, you know? So it was a good time.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:13:31 - 00:13:45]
So can we quickly go back to when you said that the first business, or both businesses were started out of fear and the desire for financial freedom? Where did that fear and anxiety come from?
Brett Gelfand: [00:13:45 - 00:16:34]
It definitely probably comes from some of the beliefs of my parents and their fear of losing money and kind of the way that I was raised, in a sense that I lived a very financially secure childhood, and we really never had money issues. But the mentality and psychology around money, I don't think was the healthiest around being careful about how much we're going to eat at a restaurant or some of these tiny things, of how much money we can actually spend on things, when in reality, we probably would have been fine not having those conversations and that mentality kind of probably drives an innate fear in me around, kind of like the fear of loss, the fear of losing what I have. And I guess because I never really went through, thankfully, a tough financial loss, I think people that do are much more risk takers because they realize it's not that bad, and typically, they can make it back up. I used to have a business coach that would gamble a lot of his money, and he would lose it, and he would make it back up again. And his problem was just like, keeping the money with him and making sure he's investing it properly, because he knows that no matter what happens, he can make his money back up again. My wife is the same way. She went through a lot of hardships, ups and downs growing up when it comes to money, and she's very lax around, okay, let's go take this big trip, or let's go do this and let's not worry about it. So I think it's just kind of the way that I was raised. And when I first came up with the idea for the business, I knew it was a great idea. I knew the idea had legs.I knew the market well enough, and I was pretty confident that we can make it work. But even as we were dialing deals in with some of the largest companies in the space, and we're having a lot of success, I still felt this, oh, we got to maintain it. We got to make sure we don't lose it. We got to make sure that we're planning ahead. And I think everyone, any leader needs to have, I guess, some sort of that fear and anxiety to ensure that they're planning and they're being proactive around what could happen. But there's also a level of, let's take time to enjoy the process. Let's take time to enjoy the wins. If everything fails, life isn't going to end. And honestly speaking, I think it might even help you become a bigger risk taker in the long run, or at least help you realize that it's not as scary as it seems because it happens to a lot of people. So, long winded answer of saying, probably from parenting. But now that I was able to cross that bridge, I'm working on it myself to make sure that I think money's energy, and the more that you let it flow in and out, you use it as a tool and you don't have to just keep it close to you, because what's the point of working so hard if you're just going to do that for the rest of your life?
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:16:34 - 00:16:37]
Right? It sounds like you blame your parents for your success.
Brett Gelfand: [00:16:37 - 00:16:54]
I blame my parents a little bit for my success, yeah, exactly. And I think that's great. Yeah. And definitely my dad was always telling me to start my own business, never work for anybody. He was just in my ear since I was a kid, so I definitely wouldn't be here without them and without him telling me that every day.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:16:54 - 00:16:55]
Was he also an entrepreneur?
Brett Gelfand: [00:16:55 - 00:18:02]
So he actually ran his own collection agency. He always wanted me to take it over, and that's a separate part of the conversation, but because when I saw these issues in cannabis, collecting money, my dad retired. You might want to have him on the podcast, too, because he retired. He was so bored after he sold his agency and had his exit after 30 years. He built this thing for 30 years and then finally sold it, thinking he wanted to retire. And two years later, he's like, Brett, I'm so bored. I can't keep playing golf every day. I don't have anything to do. I don't know what my purpose is anymore. And the timing was perfect because that's when I was thinking of, how can I create cash flow while I start pack case? Oh, boom. My dad can help collect some money. Let's start a business together, and I'll have him essentially do all the collections, and I'll bring in all the clients and set up all the structure for the company. And we've been keeping him rolling for a couple of years after retirement. That's now, like, what he's been doing kind of part time, kind of full time sometimes to keep himself busy.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:18:02 - 00:18:04]
Do you feel it gave him purpose?
Brett Gelfand: [00:18:04 - 00:18:38]
I think it definitely does. I think he takes a lot of pride in his work. And as much as you would think, how could a debt collector have purpose? Like getting screamed at every day, collecting money, especially in this industry. I think he takes a ton of pride in helping smaller businesses and companies recoup what's theirs. And he's always been a very loyal and just person where he takes it very seriously. If someone does a deal and then someone doesn't hold their end of the bargain, he's fighting for our clients every day to make sure they get what's theirs. So, yeah, I think it's been good for him.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:18:38 - 00:18:47]
Okay, so let's assume your father never watches this. I want you to answer honestly. How does it feel working with your father on a business together as a partner?
Brett Gelfand: [00:18:47 - 00:19:10]
I've been loving it, to be honest. I've been loving it. We definitely have our differences, and it's been fun to be able to stay in contact, especially because I've been traveling for the last four years where I'm not home as often. For us to be able to check in daily now, because of work, it's been an absolute gift. I think the hardest part is I'm in my early 30s.
Brett Gelfand: [00:19:10 - 00:20:25]
He's in his late 60s. He's supposed to be retired. I just got married and planning my whole entire family and life where this company means something different to me than it does for him. And because of those differences, it leads to some tough conversations about how are we going to scale the company. I'm thinking way more about building the business, being an owner, a lot of things that he already did in the past, and he's using this as a way for him to stay motivated, to stay busy, to stay active, and he does a great job at it. But the way that we think about the business sometimes are difficult. We now have a full team. Before, it was just me, him, and maybe a couple of contractors. So the fact that he's now working in an organization that we're implementing processes, procedures, things that he doesn't really want to have to deal with because he's already done it before. Sometimes, honestly speaking, that's the hardest part, because he just wants to do his job and collect as much money as possible. But we have a bigger business now, and he needs to be kind of fitting in that realm, which sometimes is against what he wants to do every day from an administrative standpoint.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:20:25 - 00:20:46]
So he doesn't really want to do it, but he does it, you think, because he's doing it with you. How is that? I'm trying to interview both your dad and you in the same episode, as you can see, but it's actually very beautiful. It's very unique that you are doing business with your father. Very relevant to lots of our listeners. So I want to dig into this a little bit. So tell me more about this partnership, both pros and cons. Like, if you were to make this decision again to go into business with your father, would you do that, and what would you expect in this situation?
Brett Gelfand: [00:21:01 - 00:23:21]
I totally would. And I'm usually pretty careful about getting into business with friends or family members. And I've had my own divorce from a business partnership with someone that I considered a really good friend, so it's not easy. And putting your dad in the mix or a family member in the mix is even more complicated. But I would absolutely do it again. I think it's been a ton of fun. I've really enjoyed working with him, and the only cons, really, are just our personalities are very different when it comes to leadership and just the way that we're seeing the next stages of our lives in general, which can't be changed, because that's just the reality. It hasn't been a big problem, but it's more about the ability. Learning even to communicate between each other has been a blessing. The fact that we have tough conversations that you typically don't need to have with a family member. You can even learn so much about each other. Throughout the process, he's challenged me so much into being a little bit tougher, into understanding the business world in a way that he's seen it and why he's been so successful. And I think I challenged him from a personality standpoint to maybe be a little bit softer, to be a little bit more kind and a little bit more patient, which is a different style that he has than I have. And I think both those things are important and complement each other, especially as you're building a business. So, with that said, I really welcome and love the challenges that come with it, especially from someone that I respect so much, because it just allows us to learn from each other every day. And it's really cool to see myself growing up where he always wanted me to take over one of his businesses, and he was always trying to teach me how to run my own company. And to be honest, now I'm starting to see that we're really, truly partners in this, and that he's getting just as much out of me, and he's learning my abilities from the last ten years of me building businesses the same way that I was able to see what he's done in the past. And I think that's probably a nice moment for him as well, to kind of see me grow up and kind of take the reins on growing these companies and setting them up the way that they're set up, where maybe before, he might not have had that confidence in me because he never really worked with me. He just kind of saw what I was doing on the side.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:23:21 - 00:23:37]
I absolutely see how each of you separately benefits a lot from this partnership, but I wonder how it affected your relationship. Did it bring you closer, or it basically changed your father and son relationship into business partners relationships?
Brett Gelfand: [00:23:37 - 00:25:11]
Yeah, that's a tricky one. But I really believe it brought us closer, because even though, to be honest, the majority of our conversations is about business, I think the volume and frequency that we speak to each other is significantly more than before. I was building this company with him, and I was working in Colorado, for example, and maybe we would check in once every week, two weeks, and it was fine. But now we do the check ins once every two weeks on a personal level, like we always have. But then every day, we're going back and forth talking about business, and at the end of the conversations, we might say, hey, what are you doing tonight for dinner? Or what are you doing this weekend? So the idea to be able to mix the business day to day with just being in constant communication with someone that you love so much, I think it's been great for us. We've never really had any terrible falling outs. And my dad's personality is very abrasive. It's very direct, and I know that about him. So we can go back and forth and go at it where someone listening might be like, oh, my God, these guys must hate each other. Just from a standpoint of the way that we kind of try to be to the point, try to be direct and explain our points, but in a very maybe more aggressive way than, let's talk and be calm. And then at the end of the end of the call, it's all right, dad. Love you. We'll take care of it. Have a good day. It doesn't really ever turn out to be ugly, so I'm grateful for that as well, because we've just really learned how to communicate in our own special way.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:25:11 - 00:25:13]
What does your mother think about your partnership?
Brett Gelfand: [00:25:13 - 00:25:33]
Yeah, my mom's cool with it. My parents are actually divorced, so she actually always keeps asking that she wants to work for the businesses. Also. I think she's a little envious that I get to work with my dad and she wants to be part of the ride as well. But no, she's very happy for us, and I think she's very proud of us as well.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:25:33 - 00:25:36]
Did financial freedom make you happy?
Brett Gelfand: [00:25:36 - 00:27:04]
Yeah. And I know that word happy is a tough one. And I think for me, happiness comes from really being at a level of content, and being content for me, is not having as many worries and having more peace of mind. When you think of happiness. Yeah, maybe you think of going on a throw ride or you going on an amazing journey or adventure, going on a vacation, and all that's happiness, being on the beach.But that idea of happiness is a little bit fleeting, where your day to day is like, what's going to make you truly happy on a day to day basis? That's a normal, routine basis. And for me, that's being at peace and not being anxious and not being kind of surrounded by energy. That's negative. And yes, for this exit where at least for the year before I decided to leave and get out, I was anxious, I was very nervous about my financial security, and I was extremely uneasy. I was not comfortable, and I was not at a place where I wanted to be much longer. So the fact that I was able to hit that milestone, the money was great. The money is good. The money is really important because the money allows you to have that level of ease. And at least for me personally, everyone's different.
Brett Gelfand: [00:27:04 - 00:29:10]
Having that nest egg that I can now foster from this age, it gives me a whole level of appreciation and peace that I didn't have before. And plus, which I think might even be more impactful for me, is I got out of a partnership and a business that wasn't serving me anymore. And those things combined absolutely. I would say I'm a much more easygoing, happy person now than I was before. And those things led me to experience these very happy experiences that I may or may not have had before the exit. I would probably say there was more likely that I had these big experiences that I could afford. For example, we paid for our own wedding last year in Mexico that was way more expensive than I would have ever planned. At first, I didn't even plan on having a wedding, but we had a whole blown out wedding that I would have paid double for. After we went through the experience. So the fact that I had the confidence and the finances to invest in, that was absolutely worth it. And then we went on a four week honeymoon to Africa. And without me having that financial security either, maybe I would have taken a smaller trip or something. That would have been beautiful and great. But would it have been as amazing as the trip we took? I can't really say, but I doubt it because the trip was just so incredible. Everything that we wanted to do. We're not restricted because of finances. And I think that is a very important component of if you're considering an exit, if you have things in life that are important coming up, you only have those experiences once in a lifetime, really. And if you could bank some cash to be able to experience those, it's typically more worth it than making an extra million, $2 million. In the long run, I think you have to take advantage of those critical experiences in life that only come once.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:29:10 - 00:29:17]
Was it all worth it for you? All the stress and suffering and hard work that came with building and selling a business?
Brett Gelfand: [00:29:18 - 00:31:34]
100%. And I think the entrepreneurs and the founders that even decide to take a step into starting their own business, that's a step that the majority of people on this planet might not be comfortable ever to take. And I think that step is critical in personal development, in confidence, self esteem, education, learning. I mean, the amount of skills that you can accumulate by stepping into the unknown and starting your own business and creating your own financial security. I try my best to recommend it to anyone that's in high school or anyone that's considering what they want to do post college, because it's too easy in our society now just to take a nine to five job and get your benefits and get your 401K, get your health plan, and think, this is it, I'm going to have a good life. And for some people, it serves them perfectly because that's what they want to do. But I think a lot of people are. It's really out of fear as well. Maybe they really are interested and excited about diving into a new project, but the fact that they might not be able to go out to dinner as much, or they might have to cut down on their finances, or maybe they will be broke in a year, it's going to essentially limit them to always have to call in for vacation days. They'll always have to report to their boss if they're sick. I never want to live a life like that. And for me to have taken that challenge and to deal with the stress and hardships that I think people deal with on a day to day basis at work, also on a nine to five job. But maybe it's a little bit more stressful. You have more things that you need to do, but at the same time, I know a lot of people, especially in New York, that are working nine to five, getting paid good, but they're way more stressed than me. Why not build equity in your own project? Why not build equity in your own business if you're going to work that hard anyway? So for me, going through that, getting that life experience and knowing that I can do it, and now I feel comfortable that I can replicate it. I've gone through the beginning stages to the M and a process. I dealt with all the lawyers and accountants and everything that you need to know to be able to do this again and again. I think that skill for me at my age is going to serve me hopefully very well in the future.
Brett Gelfand: [00:31:35 - 00:31:46]
And it's just like if you go through a twelve week workout program, that sucks and it's hard. Most likely you're going to feel pretty damn good when you get to the finish line.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:31:46 - 00:31:58]
So now that you've completed an entrepreneurial cycle you started and built and sold a business, what are the biggest, say, three lessons you learned from that whole experience?
Brett Gelfand: [00:31:58 - 00:35:21]
One would be trust your gut. If something doesn't feel right or if something kind of smells fishy, you need to really trust your gut. Because my gut was telling me one thing for so long, like over twelve months of it might be ready to sell this partnership and business isn't serving me well. And I had opportunities to really take that feeling and exploit it and really go after an exit that I wanted. And I think looking back, I probably could have had a bigger exit or a more desirable outcome. And instead, I kind of waited for that feeling to eat me alive and for things to get so ugly that I was kind of forced to get out where it was like. So number one, definitely trust your gut. And that kind of goes along with maybe number two, which is be very careful going into 50 50 partnerships. It sounds so perfect, especially if you're at your first business and you got somebody that believes in the idea, great, let's just do 50 50 and we'll just split everything and everything's going to be perfect. But once you start making money and roles and responsibilities matter. I'm sure you've spoken to a ton of people about this topic, but it's a very challenging dilemma you can run into. And one of those dilemmas is if one partner wants to sell and the other partner doesn't want to sell. If you don't have those discussions beforehand that there's drag along of one partner can make that final decision. If you don't have that clear, then you're really forced into a tough situation that could really affect you financially if that's not ironed out in the beginning. So I think that's an important one, is be careful on 50-50. And I guess the last one would be take the money and run. Sometimes, to be honest, if you have an offer and you're not feeling great about the business anymore, you can start getting into analysis paralysis about what you can maybe have and how much bigger you thought the business would be. But if you have an offer that seems reasonable and you're ready to leave, take the money and run and go on to your next thing. I don't think any entrepreneur that had an exit, their first exit is going to be upset about the value of their first exit. I don't think anyone's going to look back and say, dang, I could have got three x for that. I think anyone that had a reasonable exit is going to be happy. I think the founders that don't take the exit and I'm going to use my last company as an example. The company I don't think exists anymore. I think it, after a year went bankrupt or who knows where it is today. And we had an opportunity, and he had an opportunity to take that ride with me. And I think he even admitted to me and when things weren't going well a year or so later that he wished he listened to me. So I think it's an example for most entrepreneurs and founders. If you have a good offer on the table, don't be greedy and take the money and run and go on to your next thing. Unless you're in love with the business and you want to be doing it for a very long time, that's a different story.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:35:21 - 00:35:33]
Let's talk about your globetrotting, because I know you've been traveling a lot and you're in Argentina right now. So what did it give you and why do you continue living around the world?
Brett Gelfand: [00:35:33 - 00:39:16]
I love that question because it gave me pretty much everything I have in my life today. When I was starting my business pack, I was so close to just living the normal lifestyle like all my friends were kind of committing to. I'm from Atlanta, Georgia, and pretty much at the age of like 25 to 30, everybody there owns a house, has a wife, a dog, and they kind of have a steady home and routine which, it's a beautiful place to live and I don't shame it at all. And I was so close to buying a condo and getting a dog and kind of settling down with finding a partner in Atlanta. And I decided one day right before I was about to sign an offer on a condo and adopt a dog, I was like, what am I doing? I have my own job that I can work anywhere in the world. I have my own. It's, it's way more expensive to live in Atlanta than it is to live in some places in South America. I'm going to take a four month trip and see how I like it and travel to Chile, Peru, Colombia, Mexico City, a month. In each country there's a program called Remote Year, which I highly recommend to anybody that's looking to travel and not sure how to do it or doesn't feel comfortable. And they basically set you up with a group of other digital nomads or entrepreneurs, freelancers that can work remote. They set you up with housing and co working space and they make it very easy for you to go travel and work in different countries. So I said, I'm going to sign up for this program. It was cheaper than my rent was in Atlanta. So why? You know, after meeting some of my very closest friends today on this trip and having probably the most fun I've had since I was maybe in college, my last weekend of the trip, I was in Mexico City and I ended up meeting my wife when I was down there, who is from, you know, we ended up meeting, this was like three months before COVID and we fell in love extremely quickly and I ended up deciding just to live with her through the pandemic. So I lived in Mexico City for four years through the pandemic, and now my wife and I are traveling, waiting for her citizenship to move to Florida. And, you know, later this year. And the fact that I was able to learn how doable it is to live in South America, Latin America, being able to work anywhere, the power of geo arbitrage, making dollars, spending, know, it's just, it's, it's so massive for anyone that can do it, where so many people are looking for their next investment or their next get rich quick scheme to make an extra 10-20 percent a year. Just move to Buenos Aires or move to Colombia and make US dollars and spend pesos and your money is going to go three x, four x because of the cost of living. And I think a lot of people don't pay attention to it. But more than just the financial aspect, I'm able to learn an entirely new language and connect with twice as many human beings on the planet. So it's just so fun for me to be able to go out and have conversations with someone that I would have never been able to have a conversation with. You can meet the love of your life like I did because it gave me a new perspective of just people out there in general. And there's people all over the world that can resonate with you that don't have to come from your specific bubble at home. And for me, that was super important. Yeah. The food, the amazing food that we get to eat in Mexico City and even in Buenos Aires. I am so incredibly surprised by the quality of the food and these places and how organic the foods are, how fresh they are, how healthy they are. In my part of the world and the states, it's extremely difficult to find clean food.
Brett Gelfand: [00:39:16 - 00:40:29]
So there's just things that you don't think about that I advise to anybody, especially someone that's graduating from college, that has a remote sales job in tech, know can work remotely, where a lot of people can do. Now, after COVID, instead of moving to New York City or moving to London or moving to Miami and spending $4,000 a month on rent, having four roommates and living in a closet, go to Medellin and live in a penthouse for half the cost and meet new friends and you're doing the same type of work. But then it also just gets you out of your comfort zone because you're now going out and doing things that taking salsa lessons or. There's just so many more activities and cultural experiences that you can have and learn from than just doing what everybody else does. And I become extremely passionate about this way of life. It's not going to last forever. My wife and I are talking about potentially having kids, and we're going to have to have a home and have maybe more of a steady life. But up until that point, you got, like, maybe 5-10 years to really take advantage post college, of being free and independent. Go work remote. I'm a huge proponent of it.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:40:29 - 00:40:53]
Yeah, me too. I've done it, too. I traveled quite a bit, especially after my first exit, actually. And one thing I found particularly impactful, looking back, is that I've learned so much about myself. When you put yourself in a completely different situation, you just understand yourself much better. I don't know if you also had that conclusion.
Brett Gelfand: [00:40:53 - 00:40:55]
Yeah, totally. Where'd you go, by the way?
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:40:55 - 00:41:17]
Well, all over the place. Asia and Europe, not as much South America actually, as you did, because I lived in New York at that time, and I kind of really wanted to go to something outside of both Americas. But I think in a way, it doesn't matter as long as it's a completely new environment, doesn't matter what culture you pick to explore further.
Brett Gelfand: [00:41:18 - 00:43:35]
Absolutely, I mean, I think the hardest part for me was being in Being. Being the white boy in Mexico City with my wife and all of her friends. And fortunately, my wife, her family and friends, they all can speak English fluently. But when they're all together, especially in the beginning when I was just learning Spanish, I was that weird kid in the corner, kind of like hiding behind my glass because I didn't understand a word that was happening. And I was so used to being more of the outgoing one, the one bringing people together in my hometown and having a bunch of friends. And now I'm here kind of as the quiet one that couldn't really participate in the conversations unless I really forced myself to learn more spanish. And that's a huge growing opportunity for me. I learned that it's okay to be quiet, it's okay to listen, it's okay to be uncomfortable. And it took me a long time to learn that because there were many nights where I was extremely frustrated of like, oh, I miss my people. I miss being able to speak my own language, and I have to ask my wife to make dinner reservations. And I can't really be like the man of the house to be able to really do much in this city. Even driving took me some time. I mean, Mexico City is insane when it comes to driving. And for many months, I wasn't ready to drive there, so my wife had to drive me around like I was handicapped. And finally I had to step up and say, okay, I'm going to learn to drive here. I'm going to learn how to speak this language so I can do basic things. And like you said, it's a huge growth in personal development. And I think I'm very proud of a lot of those achievements that I've had. Making new friends from different places, even the friends that don't speak English, for me, is the most fun, where I've got really close friends that we built our whole relationship in Spanish. I even went to therapy a couple of times and saw like, a coach or therapist in Mexico City, and I did it all in Spanish. It was definitely a lot cheaper than finding a US counselor, but at the same time, it was so fun for me to be able to express my feelings and emotions and things in Spanish. And that, to me, has led to a lot of experiences that I've had and strange experiences that I would have never had unless I was in different places. So I totally agree with your testament there.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:43:35 - 00:43:44]
You mentioned coaches and therapy a few times during this interview. Talk to me a bit more about it. What role, say, therapy played in your life generally?
Brett Gelfand: [00:43:44 - 00:46:10]
Yes. So the first time I got kind of introduced to coach therapy, my wife is big in therapy. She loves speaking to different therapists and doing all kinds of different rituals around therapy. So she definitely opened my eyes to the positive aspects of being able to share your feelings and emotions with somebody that can help, et cetera. It all started, I guess, through the dilemma I was having on my first business that I was trying to get out of, where I started feeling extremely nervous, uncomfortable. I wasn't happy. I was kind of in the dumps for a while, trying to figure out what to do and stress. So that's when I started exploring what coaching could mean. The first engagement I had was actually with a business coach, and I respect him a ton. He was a fighter pilot in the air Force, and he sold oil and gas. Business did incredibly well, and he was very logical, tactical, but at the same time had a really great perspective of life in a spiritual sense. So it was definitely more of an expensive engagement because of his credentials versus a standard, I would say counselor or therapist or psychologist. But for him, he was very tactical, like, all right, just sell the business, you're not happy, get out versus let's go in deep and let's talk more. And I learned a lot from that, and I appreciate that a lot also, because what I learned through that coaching and then I went to more of a typical therapist. I was looking for someone that could also teach, like Zen or meditation and more on the spiritual side, because I think that's really where it comes from, where if you can find peace and be present, then you don't really need to overthink where you got to today and how everything evolved. You can just do your best to focus on the present moment and move forward. But with those different aspects of therapy and coaching, which I really just did through kind of the tougher parts of my life, and now I'm trying more and more to just practice meditation and read books about being present. That's really been my best kind of therapy. But through that, what I really learned, and this is for me personally, is I could have been going to a therapist for years to talk about how anxious and upset and stressed I was about a certain thing, usually something is causing this anxiety, and you typically know what it is. For me, my partnership wasn't serving me.
Brett Gelfand: [00:46:10 - 00:47:31]
I wasn't happy. Where? Then get out, then sell. Then if you're in a relationship where you keep going to a therapist to talk about how your boyfriend or girlfriend or wife or spouse is causing you grief or is not getting along with you, and if that's a repetitive theme, you typically don't need to fix yourself. Maybe you're just in a bad relationship. And I think sometimes the world of therapy can become problematic when you're overthinking these things that, like my coach told me in the beginning, well, then just sell. And then the minute I sold, I was good. I didn't have to talk about my feelings much anymore. So I think there's a healthy balance between maybe figuring out what's causing you problems, what's making you unhappy, and a therapist can really help kind of dial in the core problems if you're having anxiety or stress that you might not be able to really dial in on. But once you dial that in, it's back to you to be decisive and to be clear about what your next step is. And as much as it's scary and jumping into the unknown and there's so many feelings around it, that's what's going to make you feel better, not going to more therapy. And that's what I learned from my experiences.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:47:31 - 00:48:07]
Yeah, I totally agree with you. Therapy is great to help you understand yourself, but it's still you who makes the decision, and it's extremely important. It's like, for example, getting advice from lawyers when you have a business. It's still on you to make the decision, whatever the legal advice. It's similar. I agree. Yeah, I do meet quite a lot of people who become very dependent on therapy, and that's not healthy. That paralyzes their ability to make decisions, or they make decisions that don't come truly from this understanding of themselves.
Brett Gelfand: [00:48:07 - 00:48:20]
And then, like you said, it becomes almost a dependency of how much can you trust yourself versus needing to get clearance from a therapist or a professional. And I agree.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:48:20 - 00:48:35]
I've seen a lot of confidence also in your own ability to make decisions for yourself. And as entrepreneurs, we tend to make decisions that are quite different from what other people do. And I think it's important to keep doing that, to stay on our own path.
Brett Gelfand: [00:48:35 - 00:49:21]
Yeah. Like I mentioned, for me now, I think from what I've learned through going through that experience, which I think everybody should test out if they're not feeling great or if they feel like they want to work on themselves. Absolutely. It's super healthy to test out different therapists and coaches and figure out what serves you. For me, through that experience of trying different therapists and coaches, what I've realized is working on being grateful and present and maybe a coach and maybe like a meditation coach or some sort of coach that can help you focus on those tactical tools to get you there is great, but it's really just going to come down to practice Buddhism, you got to practice meditation.
Brett Gelfand: [00:49:21 - 00:50:10]
And that's the main part of that sect is just making sure you're being present and sitting down and you could even just go for a walk or just putting things in your life to help you be present. That's really it for me, at least at this point where I have a ways to go. I have a long way to go, but at least trying to sit down for 1520 minutes in the morning and meditate and taking time in my calendar to go on a walk in the afternoon, things that I didn't do years ago I can sense are helping me enjoy my days. They make the days longer and they help me be way more mindful for the things that are going on in my life on a day to day basis versus just getting wrapped up, starting your day, picking up your phone and boom, the next thing you know you're just all in your head and the day is over. So that's really it for me.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:50:10 - 00:50:54]
I like to call this spiritual fitness because for me it's not that different from physical fitness. You need to put a bit of effort to understand the rules, what works and what doesn't. And then you have to practice and there is no other way to ensure you have this spiritual growth. And spiritual growth is how we make our life more fulfilling, more meaningful, more purposeful. There is no shortcut. Like, you can't just become an olympic swimmer if you don't train every day. It's the same thing. You can't have a fulfilling life if you're not working on your spiritual fitness on a daily basis. The earlier you understand it, the better. And I think you are extremely lucky or wise maybe, that you came to this conclusion so early in your life.
Brett Gelfand: [00:50:54 - 00:52:01]
Thank you. I feel the same way. I feel like we all get caught up in these new biohacks of getting up and doing cold plunge and sauna and those things are great. I love taking cold showers in the morning and it wakes me up and great. But it's way more important to just do your best to take a step back throughout your days, and like you said, practice rituals. Just like you would go to the gym on a daily basis than having to hire XYZ coach and read XYZ book and just do the practice. And I think what's most relevant is there's not a secret solution to just be happy all the time. They have people that have 100 million dollar exits, 200 million dollar exits. They're still going to be working to make another 300, $400 million. It's a constant rat race where until you get to a point where you realize that and you're aware that you don't really need that much and you don't need to be that spectacular, you don't have to save the planet.
Brett Gelfand: [00:52:01 - 00:54:23]
You just have to be a good person and live a good life and keep your relationships close to you. For me, I'm starting to realize, as I start thinking about children and raising a family, that's really all I care about, is becoming like a great dad and being a great husband. I don't think that I need to have any kind of legacy of being, like, an entrepreneur, businessman, cannabis, whatever. I think it's more important to have a company or a business or job that allows you to have the freedom to be that identity that you want to be, or just be the person that you want to be. And for me, that would be as simple as just being a great contributor to my family and being there for the people that love me. And it says sometimes we overcomplicate things a lot. Where I did an exercise where it was kind of like, called, like your perfect day exercise. I think it came from Tony Robbins or something, but it was so basic where I went to this mastermind, and they had us all essentially write out what our perfect day would look like, our perfect week would look like, our perfect month would look like, and our perfect year would look like, and as detailed as, what time are you waking up? Is someone cooking breakfast for you? Are you going to yoga every day, or are you doing that on a weekly basis? Where are you living? Are you living on the beach? How big is your house? How often are you going on a trip on a yearly basis? How long is a trip? And then you put a budget next to every single one of those items. So it's going to cost $40 a yoga class, it's going to be a $10,000 trip every year, whatever the numbers are, and you add that up, and with the 15 people in this group that we did this exercise with, I think about 80% of the group had this eye opening experience, including myself. And it was like, wow. But the money that we're making now, we're already there. There's nothing else that we need. The income that every one of the people in the group was already generating could afford them that lifestyle. So what are we doing? What's the point of working harder? What's the point of going to these masterminds? What's the point of pushing, pushing, pushing, when everything on paper was already our dream life and we could afford it tomorrow? So that was a huge kind of eye opening experience for me, of like, why do we keep pushing so damn hard when it could be so easy to take a step back and say, yeah, there's not really much more we need?
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:54:23 - 00:54:38]
Oh, well, you continued running businesses and building new businesses and creating an industry association. So there was something else in it besides money that drove you, and I would love to understand that.
Brett Gelfand: [00:54:38 - 00:57:42]
Yeah, it's a good question, and it definitely sounds hypocritical of, like, okay, great, you have what you need. I'm making enough money to do what I want to do, and then I'm going to keep building businesses or starting new things. And from the evolution of the collection agency. So, after I sold the packaging business and focused on the collection agency, it was almost an organic process of an evolution of this new company. And it was as simple as we help companies collect money in the cannabis industry.If anyone's owed money, we help collect it on a contingency basis. So we've helped collect more money than any other group out there in cannabis, and we've built a really solid foundation for debt collections. Now, our clients will say, Brett, thank you so much for helping us collect all this money, but how can you make sure this won't happen to us in the future? How can we protect ourselves from these bad actors and these people that don't pay their bills? And in cannabis, nobody's really reporting to the big credit bureaus. No one's really accustomed to credit reporting in general. And Dun Bradstreet, Equifax, TransUnion, they hardly have any data on cannabis companies because it's not normal in cannabis. So because we already had the clientele, we already had the credibility, the name, we set up a sister company called the Cannabis Credit association, which was intended to do just that, to bring our clients and different companies in the industry together to report their AR data. And in a sense, they can finally make better decisions. So, for me, it was as simple as just solving a problem. There was a problem out there. I tried different solutions. I tried working with these other partners and credit agencies that already do this work, but there was no data there, and they really weren't pushing the initiative either. So for me, it was just a way of solving a problem. And if it turns into a huge financial success, that's icing on the cake for me at this point. That's fun. For me, it's been an amazing experience because I've partnered with someone who's really doing the day to day acting as the president, where I'm not the go to guy like I have been in my previous companies. And for me, it's been an amazing experience more than anything else to learn and work on more management, high level strategy, really becoming an owner, more of an investor mindset, and how I can take those skills to other ideas or opportunities in the future, versus me having to be bogged down in the entire business setup from A to Z. So aside from the business solving a problem and that being kind of a driving force for me, the other is more a little bit more internal and more high level of, okay, this is teaching me something that I've always wanted to get to a point. How can I build a business without having to take up 40, 50 hours of my day and learn to delegate, learn to hire better, learn to work on the company versus working in the company? And I think that's another great challenge for me that I am enjoying.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:57:42 - 00:57:44]
Brett, do you have a sense of purpose?
Brett Gelfand: [00:57:45 - 00:59:01]
That's a good one. I think I'm getting there. I think I'm getting there. I think I'm finding it. I think, like I mentioned before, the process and bridge of just identifying as a good human being and a family man is really all I want to be. I think there's a lot of ways I can improve the level of attention and contribution in my marriage. And I think there's a lot of ways that I can prioritize my relationship with my friends and family over my relationship with my business. And that's a conflict because of the last seven years of being in a certain habit and a certain mindset of company needs to succeed and I need to work super hard and I can't fail. And realizing that I identified as an entrepreneur for so long as like, that was number one of I wanted to be a founder that had an exit and business business to being that's completely secondary or something that's going to just channel the ability for me to identify and have a purpose of being a great friend, a great husband, and a future great father. I don't think I need anything more than that.
Brett Gelfand: [00:59:01 - 00:59:32]
I don't need to save the planet. If I do one day, great. I think I can do my best to support good, positive things in this world. And if it becomes a charitable, nonprofit idea one day, great things that might circulate. But right now, if I'm just a good human that treats the planet well and treats my family well and treats my friends well, I think I'll be an old man one day and say I lived a good life.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:59:32 - 00:59:33]
Can I make a prediction?
Brett Gelfand: [00:59:33 - 00:59:35]
Please do. Let's do it.
Anastasia Koroleva: [00:59:35 - 00:59:43]
I think you'll be a fantastic father, but when your children leave your nest, you'll get absolutely obsessed about saving the world.
Brett Gelfand: [00:59:44 - 01:00:37]
That's a great point, right? If I identify so much as a great father and they leave me, I'm going to be absolutely destroyed. But I actually heard something on a podcast or a quote, I might butcher this, so I'm going to try my best to remember. But it was like, the definition of success for me is my kids considering me their best friend when they're adults. And I love that, where it's like, if I can essentially become best friends and super close to my children when they're out of a home, then I think I've mastered everything that I would want, where I was obviously the husband and father and person that my kids want to be around. So, yeah, I think I like that quote. But we'll see, because I don't have kids yet, so maybe they're just absolutely rugrats, and I can't stand them.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:00:37 - 01:00:54]
I actually don't think you'll be devastated necessarily, when they leave home. Given this whole experience you're having with your father right now, I think it will probably be a smooth transition, and maybe you and your kids together will be on a journey to save the world.
Brett Gelfand: [01:00:54 - 01:00:56]
Yeah, that would be fun.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:00:56 - 01:00:58]
More than telling you that, you'll be devastated.
Brett Gelfand: [01:00:58 - 01:01:35]
I would love that would be so much fun for me, I think to be able to pass the torch from generation to generation and pass it down to my kids and work with them in a business capacity, even. That would be great. And my dad did the same thing. He's been extremely supportive. He even loaned us some money in the beginning of starting my first companies. But everything was very transactional, too, which I really appreciate. Everything's in writing. I treat him just like any other investor, and I love the way that he taught me that, where if I ever get into business with my kids, it's, yeah, like I'm your dad, but at the same time, we're doing business here.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:01:35 - 01:02:16]
Two of my three children are almost out of the house. And one completely life changing advice that I got from a much older father and also exited founder some time ago was that it's extremely important to not miss this moment when you need to switch from being a parent to being a mentor. Not necessarily a friend, by the way, but a mentor. And it sounds like your father did exactly that. And look at the results. You turned out great. You have the amazing relationships, and you have some wisdom that he taught you that you will be bringing to your own family and your kids and probably do an even better job by then. So it's fantastic to see.
Brett Gelfand: [01:02:16 - 01:02:21]
Yeah, I love that. That's a really nice way to look at it. Thanks for sharing.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:02:21 - 01:02:36]
Yeah, I do it with my children and I can't say we're necessarily best friends, but I know we're extremely close and they value my opinion. They respect me and it makes me so happy. And maybe in the future we will be more friends. But right now I think they still need a mentor.
Brett Gelfand: [01:02:36 - 01:02:50]
Yeah. And that's also a delicate balance too, of still having the respect of a mother or father versus them sharing and treating you like a best friend, which maybe in high school or we might not need all that information.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:02:50 - 01:03:01]
But Brett, you clearly have an amazing EQ emotional intelligence, especially for your age. So I'm absolutely not worried about you being an amazing parent.
Brett Gelfand: [01:03:01 - 01:03:14]
I appreciate that. Thank you. We're going to do our best to live the next maybe nine months or so and be selfish and do what we want to do and travel and not have a lot of stuff. But yeah, it's starting to be a topic.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:03:14 - 01:03:19]
Love each other before kids come to their life and challenge everything.
Brett Gelfand: [01:03:20 - 01:03:21]
Exactly.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:03:22 - 01:03:28]
And make you live in one place and not all around. That's how my globetrotting ended.
Brett Gelfand: [01:03:28 - 01:03:39]
Yeah, that's what I've heard. So we were like, let's try to get it all out of our system and basically be ready and excited to settle down versus being forced to settle down.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:03:39 - 01:03:41]
Brett, how do you want to be remembered?
Brett Gelfand: [01:03:41 - 01:06:08]
Yeah, I'm going to go back to kind of like this common theme that's kind of new for me, even speaking about it out loud. But a good father, a good husband, and a good friend, a good son. I think the pressure of saying I want to be known as a CEO of a certain company or having being a multi ultra wealthy billionaire millionaire, it doesn't really resonate with me. I don't really care. Maybe in the future if we do have this podcast in seven years. Maybe I find a philanthropic opportunity where maybe I might want to be remembered as somebody that helped a particular part of this planet. And that's something that I'm definitely going to let marinate a little bit. But other than being just a good family man, the other thing is, and I think it's something that people do see me as today, is being supportive, being enthusiastic when it comes to entrepreneurship and somebody deciding to take a risk and leap into an unknown situation that could help free them from the constraints of what our capitalist society has put on us in the terms of nine to five and kind of the corporate slavery. I've become passionate about that topic a lot, and I think people resonate and are attracted to speaking with me because I might be able to share some of that energy to say, you don't have to be stuck, like, you can do this. It's not that hard. If I can do it, you definitely can do it. And if I'm remembered for that, that'd be great, too. Because I do think the word entrepreneurship has just been very trendy lately. It's thrown around a lot, and if you really dial into it, for me, it's as clear as, like, entrepreneurship is equal to freedom in my perspective. Some people get stuck in their jobs, and some people actually work themselves into a job that's harder than if they worked for somebody else because they haven't really learned to delegate or they don't know how to. But if you can get to true entrepreneurship, where you can build a business and become an owner, your life opens up substantially. And I think the majority of people, at least in my circle, have more than the accolades and experience and skill set to do it. It's just being a different world for them. And if I could help them see that that world isn't so scary and it's not that hard, that'd be a cool thing to be remembered for as well.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:06:08 - 01:06:12]
So now that you've achieved financial freedom, how do you define freedom?
Brett Gelfand: [01:06:13 - 01:07:37]
Right now, where I'm at, it's essentially being able to do live, eat, work on whatever I want, wherever I want. Essentially. I don't have to think about, should we go to this restaurant tomorrow? Because can we afford it or not? I don't have to think, should we take this trip in a couple of weeks? And I have to be conscious about my responsibilities at work, which is also something that I enjoy doing. I'm choosing to come back and I don't want to spend three weeks on a vacation, because not only do I know it's going to be a little bit more stressful for when I come back. But I do want to come back home earlier because I want to spend more time working on the business. I actually enjoy it. So there's always a limit, too, of it's not a problem if you like to work either. It's not a bad thing if you want to come home and work on your business. But I have the option to choose what I want to do and how long. I don't think I actually started getting a little bit uncomfortable after four weeks of traveling and not having a gym to go to, not being in a routine, not working on the business. It was one of those things where I felt, okay, I had a great time, but there's a balance where there's only so long I could sit on a beach and read a book. I think that's what happens to most retired people.
Brett Gelfand: [01:07:37 - 01:07:58]
They think that they're going to hit this retired heaven of doing nothing and chilling and relaxing and it's boring and your mind's not stimulated and you're not learning and you're not growing. And I think that's what leads to people unfortunately getting old and not having purpose. And that really destroys a human being.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:07:58 - 01:08:00]
We either grow or we die, right?
Brett Gelfand: [01:08:00 - 01:08:00]
Yes.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:08:01 - 01:08:04]
And we can decide to keep growing and then we keep living.
Brett Gelfand: [01:08:04 - 01:08:04]
Exactly.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:08:05 - 01:08:07]
I think that's how our DNA works.
Brett Gelfand: [01:08:07 - 01:08:08]
It definitely is.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:08:08 - 01:08:22]
We crave growth. And if we stop at some point thinking that this is where happiness is, life teaches us very quickly that, no, absolutely not. You keep growing in all the necessary direction and only then you get this reward of fulfillment.
Brett Gelfand: [01:08:22 - 01:09:41]
And with financial success, it allows you to be a little bit more creative in those options. I feel a little bit more open to taking risks that I wouldn't have taken otherwise or think about business opportunities that I didn't think would be possible otherwise. For example, if I wanted to get into real estate, I could decide, let's start and buy a multifamily and Airbnb and see how that goes. And that's been a consideration. And just the idea of having those thoughts fly is fun. It's interesting, it's enjoyable. And knowing that I have the confidence in myself, not only from a financial level, but from an experience level where I could say, okay, I'm going to put more time into real estate instead of these companies. All right, great. I'm going to take these actions to delegate the businesses and focus on real estate before the financial security and before the experience of learning these skills. I probably wouldn't have had those same thoughts. And I would have probably freaked out about the idea of buying a multifamily house or starting some other company or starting a business mastermind or doing anything else, because I'd be like, how am I going to do all this? It's too much now. It's way easier for me to say, okay, I can take that risk. I can try it out. If it doesn't work out, okay, I'm going to be okay. And it's not the end of the world.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:09:41 - 01:09:43]
What's your investing philosophy?
Brett Gelfand: [01:09:43 - 01:11:37]
I'm pretty boring. I put probably 90%, maybe 85% in ETFs in the stock market. And the other small percentage I'll dabble in crypto. I still think we've got legs on bitcoin, Ethereum, so I'm pretty bullish, especially living in these countries like Argentina and having a wife that's from a different country. There is also a philosophical element of I really hope this thing works out, because trying to send my wife money through banks is just absolutely ridiculous. And then having to send money to someone in a different country when we're all so globalized now working with people from all over the world, and they make it so hard to take your money and share it with somebody else. Even though I can send you a photo, I can send you a video, I can send you anything else digitally, except for money that I made, I think is absolutely ridiculous. So long winded answer of saying I really hope and personally invested in cryptocurrency becoming a thing and the rest, small investments. Maybe one or two times I've invested in friends companies or other people's businesses really as more of a show of support to them and kind of a fun, kind of like you go to a casino and you start gambling. Like, it's just a fun thing for me, but very boring. Put money in the ETF and then if I ever plan on investing more in my current companies, I will take money out and put it into those businesses. But for the most part, if I need to raise money, I typically prefer to find strategic investors or investors that could add to the business versus taking it out of my family's portfolio. So it's pretty basic.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:11:37 - 01:11:44]
Sounds great. Sounds great. Brett, thank you so much. This was wonderful. I really, really enjoyed this interview.
Brett Gelfand: [01:11:44 - 01:11:47]
I did as well. This was great. Thank you so much for having me.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:11:47 - 01:11:50]
And we'll do it again in five or seven years.
Brett Gelfand: [01:11:50 - 01:11:56]
I'm down, I'm down. We're very down. So sign us up.
Anastasia Koroleva: [01:11:56 - 01:11:57]
Thank you so much.
Brett Gelfand: [01:11:57 - 01:11:57]
Thank you.
